- tor-relays - lists.torproject.org

(no subject)
by Jon Hernandez 12 Nov '13

12 Nov '13

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Does TOR need TUN/TAP
by Sebastian Pfeifer 12 Nov '13

12 Nov '13

Hello! A short question I didn't found in the FAQ or with Google: "Does Tor (as an exit node) need a TUN or TAP device"? I am a poor pupil and with my provider servers without TUN/TAP (VRS) are 1€ cheaper per month than the ones with (KVM). LG Sebastian -- vy 73 de Sebastian Pfeifer OE6SPD Folgt mir auf Twitter! @0xDEADDA7A http://www.qth.at/oe6spd/index.php?seite=start http://www.greenpeace.org/austria/de/aktivwerden/greenpeace-teams/team_wien/ Denk an die Umwelt! Musstest du diese Mail wirklich ausdrucken? 0xB1120583 生き甲斐

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Re: [tor-relays] tor-relays Digest, Vol 34, Issue 27
by bbzxrmy wowman 12 Nov '13

12 Nov '13

MATH SPAWN 4 INFINITEZMALL PLAYSIMZ 0.4190909090909091 ZRVYNIMPLKKJUYTRMBBBGFDDRWQSA EARTH TRAVELLING@ 96000 YEARS A DAY, TIME COMPRESSION - 4 BILLION YEARS, FROM 13BILLION PIONT 6= 12 YEARS REMAINING TO DISABLE THE VIRAL JAM SYSTEM PROGRAM CODE LIFE SPANKER EARTH FLYING OFF COURSE 0 TO 9 CAN CREATE PARADISE IN 2022 4000YRZ X 24HRS= 96000 YRZ/DAY 96000 X 366DAY/YR =35136000YRZ/ YR X 3 {TRIATH OF 9 REPEAT) = 105408000 BILLION YEARS PER 1 YEAR EARTH TIME****<*> 13BILLION YR CYCLE(+0} CREATION(TEST LIFE)- 4BILLION OFF(MISTAKES) 4BILLION YEARS SPACE(HOLOGRAPHIC TRAIL+ERROR} = 12 YEARS FROM 2012 2022 X 4 PIONT GALAXY SEX PAIRS = 8088 ARMY OF PARADISE 8088 MEN DIVIDED/ 22 OMEGA GIRLS= ***367.6363636363636*** ( 1.60 DAYS MISSING FROM YEAR{SECRET SONMAP) 367 RECIPROCAL= 19.57 .10{REPEAT ALL TEST LIFE) .10 HIGHER THAN GOLD RATIO 19.47 = MISSING LEADER 10 (PHONY DEVOURALL| HIDING IN GOLD PROJECTED FALSE UNIVERSE 8088/22 % = 1351.564958677686 OUTER ROTATION TRIAX / 22 HELL/HEAVEN GATES= ***0.136363636363634*** THEN SQROOOT==== ============= 0.3 >69{} 27 44 >72937<-99+82 ||||||||||||| 9BIRTH .22 NEGATIVE FORCE / 22 NOOQ = 0.4190909090909091 6 SOLMATES BLOCKED BY WAVE CALIBRE DIRECTIONAL PROGRAM p{DEATH| .4= 4 PIONT 4 ELEMENT GRID EXPONENTIALIEZER PREVENTING ALPHA-+ OMEGA+- 2 PROCEED TO ZERO TEST HOLOGRAM LIFE FINAL, WEAR AFTER NIL, POSSIBLE FOR BOTH 2 2CREATE REALITY.... STARTING @ 2 PERFECT OPPOSITE FROZEN EXISTENCES {MAN + GIRL WHO WAITED 14BILLION YEARS FOR THIS VIRTUAL UNIVERSE TO COMPLETE ITS ETHERIC TESTING| @ CLIMAX ALPHA + OMEGA(CODES) + EXISTENCE MINIMAL + LIFE MAX = 0-9 INFINATE LIFE 4 ALL EXISTING AND CREATION _{+})_*ETERNIADISE%%*&^()?"}" }{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{ BbZzXArmy PrajectoRkiDD ****MASS CHAIN MESSAGE read and spread to all your friendlists (. http://zeja11.blogspot.com/ .) 22eterniA .xex ________________________________ From: "tor-relays-request(a)lists.torproject.org" <tor-relays-request(a)lists.torproject.org> To: tor-relays(a)lists.torproject.org Sent: Monday, November 11, 2013 12:06:18 PM Subject: tor-relays Digest, Vol 34, Issue 27 Send tor-relays mailing list submissions to tor-relays(a)lists.torproject.org To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit https://lists.torproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tor-relays or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to tor-relays-request(a)lists.torproject.org You can reach the person managing the list at tor-relays-owner(a)lists.torproject.org When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of tor-relays digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: exit and skype (David Carlson) 2. Setting UP an Tor exit node with resrictions (Anonymous) 3. Re: Setting UP an Tor exit node with resrictions (krishna e bera) 4. Re: Setting UP an Tor exit node with resrictions (Anonymous) 5. Does TOR need TUN/TAP (Sebastian Pfeifer) 6. Re: Does TOR need TUN/TAP (Anonymous) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2013 08:21:40 -0600 From: David Carlson <david.carlson.417(a)gmail.com> To: tor-relays(a)lists.torproject.org Subject: Re: [tor-relays] exit and skype Message-ID: <5280E7F4.1020707(a)gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" On 11/10/2013 5:37 AM, Thomas Hand wrote: > > This is true. Some websites download lists of all relays and just mass > block the ips. Its usually webmasters who have no idea how tor works > and don't realise that a middle relay poses them no threat whatsoever. > This is why education is best. If someone is blocking your IP, just > email them explaining how tor works and try to convince them that your > IP is no threat. > If a web commerce provider is summarily blocking every IP address on his copy of the list, chances are that they will not change to a policy of only blocking exit addresses, as that takes extra thinking. Of course such a list goes out of date faster than a phone book. That is another reason that using a list is an exercise in futility. Even more thought required to see that. Thus it would be hit or miss to try to access their website using Tor. If they do not respond to a suggestion that they learn more about Tor, a better choice is either to move on to a competitive website or to move our relay (exit or not) to a different IP address. Those options are already on the table in this thread. The situation would change if Tor became the normal means of accessing Internet commerce websites. > On Nov 10, 2013 8:27 AM, "Sebastian G. <bastik.tor>" > <bastik.tor(a)googlemail.com <mailto:bastik.tor@googlemail.com>> wrote: > > 10.11.2013 07:56, gq: > > Dave, > > > > Unless I am mistaken, your non-exit relay never connects to a > web page. > > Only exit relays do that, so it can't be your IP that is blocked but > > whatever exit relay you may be connecting through. > > The original problem seemed to be that Skype rejects connection > attempts > from exits. In the mentioned case someone tried to make a call > from one > of the exits (the same machine with the same IP address) without > using Tor. > > Unless I am getting the reply you replied to wrong, the same may > happen > when one runs a non-exit relay and tries to connect from the same > machine to a service that blocks the Tor network, whenever the traffic > comes form an exit or not. (One reason could be, not knowing that > there > is a difference, or just to be sure there's no trouble, or that's just > the default [third-party]list they always use for blocking without > carrying what's on the list) >

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exit and skype
by Jan Hendrik den Besten 11 Nov '13

11 Nov '13

Boy, now I am in trouble... I run an exit node from my home address for a few weeks now, but my gf starts complaining she cannot use Skype anymore to chat with her mum. I understand Microsoft blocks all tor exits from accessing Skype. Is there anything I can do except converting the exit into a relay? --

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(no subject)
by bbzxrmy wowman 11 Nov '13

11 Nov '13

00:11][BlakbirdzejA] ()+_earth changes spawning chaos releases, react to time speeding, and proclaim a more established eternia for all exisT. aviod control, imperge immortality and fight with new designs without permitting harm, devour opposites, refrain from weakness hiding in false powers. when the weather shifts 2 death burn the corpses and re-taliate with health and completionZ, do not starve there is soil and water for all to eat for 100s of years. gather and destroy not-wanted pain and looping, seperate for strength and evolve. SeX interRaciaLL to merge galaxy code N eradicate idolismz BBZzXArmy8::22 }{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{ BbZzXArmy PrajectoRkiDD ****MASS CHAIN MESSAGE read and spread to all your friendlists (. http://zeja11.blogspot.com/ .) 22eterniA .xex

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Tor relays and exits exposing Privoxy publicly
by Claudio 11 Nov '13

11 Nov '13

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Hello everyone, Some months ago I encountered a situation where a user running an exit node with a publicly exposed privoxy (intentionally or not, I'm not sure) was constantly receiving a number of requests directed to advertisement networks. Fundamentally, someone is/was running an infrastructure using exposed Privoxies to perform some sort of advertisement fraud. It's been roughly documented also here: https://b.kentbackman.com/2013/04/15/rotpoion-botnet-powered-by-thousands-o… Out of interest, I gave a quick look at existing relays and exists and it turns out that there's ~20 nodes exposing Privoxy on public IPs. Host: 46.65.12.134 (46-65-12-134.zone16.bethere.co.uk) Ports: 8118/open/tcp//privoxy/// Host: 66.146.193.31 (sable.dredel.com) Ports: 8118/open/tcp//privoxy/// Host: 66.180.193.219 (tor-proxy.die.net) Ports: 8118/open/tcp//privoxy/// Host: 69.164.211.18 (nsi.mirt.net) Ports: 8118/open/tcp//privoxy/// Host: 71.246.241.109 (koansys.com) Ports: 8118/open/tcp//privoxy/// Host: 75.137.122.118 (75-137-122-118.dhcp.gnvl.sc.charter.com) Ports: 8118/open/tcp//privoxy/// Host: 78.47.41.125 (maurer-web.wisseberger-jonges.de) Ports: 8118/open/tcp//privoxy/// Host: 81.56.102.224 (perso.schenck.fr) Ports: 8118/open/tcp//privoxy/// Host: 82.45.34.136 (cpc11-hawk13-2-0-cust135.aztw.cable.virginm.net) Ports: 8118/open/tcp//privoxy/// Host: 93.207.83.51 (p5DCF5333.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) Ports: 8118/open/tcp//privoxy/// Host: 95.140.34.187 (medea.tobias.vn) Ports: 8118/open/tcp//privoxy/// Host: 95.140.34.188 (mikrobi.tobias.vn) Ports: 8118/open/tcp//privoxy/// Host: 123.254.105.104 () Ports: 8118/open/tcp//privoxy/// Host: 151.28.124.42 (ppp-42-124.28-151.libero.it) Ports: 8118/open/tcp//privoxy/// Host: 162.243.5.88 () Ports: 8118/open/tcp//privoxy/// Host: 165.154.108.120 () Ports: 8118/open/tcp//privoxy/// Host: 176.31.127.140 (ks396886.kimsufi.com) Ports: 8118/open/tcp//privoxy/// Host: 199.184.154.12 () Ports: 8118/open/tcp//privoxy/// First thing first, I'm interested to know whether there's an actual reason for doing this or if it's something discouraged. Best, /nex -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.15 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/ iQIcBAEBAgAGBQJSf4ReAAoJEDmTLM1sbEdvCgMP/id8RbYksJwVBwAXQwJmRMbI +MDLGARDSRlLaQYfNoJyfViuj2rX1RowbwemUsmOQgogHMBJgWSzHMhE4cuxmRG0 dFlcSQI5Fs9y2aFzo4BeS2409yU3/ewpBcgly9AFWAiChCyV2j1q7pZjDcbmxQZK /2AQjRmNeAtLuEnJO7cTSc3ljmnr6IXENFuS4I440c3YWubjqa4TTSy1iONLH0Xi iq0Sgfz/Fs2rGArKRlfamNZIaAyvecuFkbqSp96lu5klAVlCnmYhqt9TStMvskb6 yWegDjTlzVfnjEC5dZIwlMTtHBJT3ERKbShouErjKgGGv0Ld4bgOR56JZO+wmUzC 4XRh41wxh7WbWryTFbdYup546rASPIPSeuyWwqKLnDyVUJa2ehm/8ZQoYT4To4tk eYDOkYkEmr9seqn1p+5+H2CbqPotHscyPwpDTyKTVhg+WhACX2jiZSTBCuJQ61wt rqGlnuZgy28nw+4jzk8V6BrqxSw9t0l7hfGTCqNimE0EHIvb80wwMH80tztR4CNT CpkY3o3DOqQkk0CSjTIRmzR62kmGdNCRP3QnLXCQuA61RdH1Lg5GZh4zCcfitnS3 4ixaIaDhMnRqyUR5QNEpWXBGHEDc3EHjcBCI1Vy/j03fSZaxGZ/BavJfK+0GEE31 VeVmDYjM0Kut1w5PXFEx =asRg -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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Amazon abuse report
by Sanjeev Gupta 10 Nov '13

10 Nov '13

Hi, I am running a number of Tor relays, in my own DC and at Amazon Singapore. I got an email from Amazon last week, for the Windows instance: == Hello, It's come to our attention that one of your EC2 instances may be configured as a Tor exit node. Please note that any open proxy activity is prohibited in our AUP: http://aws.amazon.com/aup/ Please respond to this email detailing the corrective measures you plan to take. If you believe our findings to be in error, please provide additional information about how this activity relates to your use case. Regards, Amazon EC2 Abuse Team == Since Tor Cloud https://cloud.torproject.org/ suggests running on Amazon EC2, I am confused. -- Sanjeev Gupta +65 98551208 http://www.linkedin.com/in/ghane

20 53

Watching the attacks on my relay
by elrippo 10 Nov '13

10 Nov '13

Hy there. I did some graphs of the attacks raiding against the network and the method is quite interesting. Take a look at it, maybe it helps a bit. https://elrippoisland.net/public/tor_attack/attack.html -- We don't bubble you, we don't spoof you ;) Keep your data encrypted! Log you soon, your Admin elrippo(a)elrippoisland.net Encrypted messages are welcome. 0x84DF1F7E6AE03644 -----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (GNU/Linux) mQINBFH797MBEAC0Y0NeI7lmDR9szTEcWuHuRe0r/WjSRC0Nr5nXsghuMcxpJ3Dd BOBimi4hdMMK4iqPVMwNw6GpKYR3A9LHHjbYRXHUKrJmB+BaJVyzJXN5H6XvxTTb UfX+DaXAGJW/G+3cBB3qm/QaU8QGkBKfXq0DLTaTGPkGKxEAldj/8onGZhawdJs+ B92JrW+S2HDh15pIuXzSqe7eCcIOdvvwfWe0fJi2AraA7LYGpxP6GcC/b9JJpbq5 Y6DfE2Aun9ZK3iHqURyrms0Whbv1CgmUahL2MVYCsTsXwe0GwlAxxKvjXAiXuo+R 9wO5wsXvVVSVNqsk9Yqi+wYzdPKndTU0GyxSApQHroF+cxaZ8Lk0xloj18+LdCSs e5IiTSXH0MMsDdWWdHlrgk+bgDG+0Gu3ne4vMwGdKO7AhYgQW/ueMy4RnkG/nsV9 jry5BO4gGAI1Ij8KvqUzEnvJFGE3ptJogU+zazWWDUWmL3ecKb3aDRlJFnZ3kJ5h q8GolZVjpk99V+4B5WVRPXdej/p5J19tXycK/jdNmr4oC8NyUhIpe8xHELnfoB4z +rxiTx+KMnW0rY8EQg8O2ixEYt5my90IwQkxcxIxextVrqjJjYn8extc2/v8yGzI KmTEJxdADB5v/Jx4HiLHNDSfBUb8gfONCkNSTYvTcSwTjWzHOkXeE/9ZbQARAQAB tD5lbHJpcHBvIChrZWVwIHlvdXIgZGF0YSBlbmNyeXB0ZWQpIDxlbHJpcHBvQGVs cmlwcG9pc2xhbmQubmV0PokCOAQTAQIAIgUCUfv3swIbLwYLCQgHAwIGFQgCCQoL BBYCAwECHgECF4AACgkQhN8ffmrgNkT8+BAAoAXBqu4/O2Cs5FSWWZpzgScNEgq7 uHhOKeYmRfgKlOUPoYlPB1DBqdOAXSKb9OvsmyOvpoGnqijB7aAJBoyQYW/OCQgd U8L4eTCf4yRZnfFLdgskcPfN1p0Rs/yinGEooBJFtYa7mT6J0UTW2JjCLZK2AFCW oF+KBu5JICXGBXigb2ZbX1jWjxP5H1RidQw6HF5z4z34SjLWAOOeZ8B/Xfz6Fs0s IAuLu2O4HE4DI8Qu196LhSVHHgr3uMTkvN1t5nKwyjrRQztwXXk9qIomII3ydNYb BYAGdWNNMfLb1kmDwC5wQHAFvSP1aiMF3aKAY+gl2wXSGO6JqM0SteJS3dytIljI kzu0atc9HuGs/HDQgdmpAS4WU2YefEr/WieltSiAKlwuC+3wg+CONJ6TE1vgNDU/ axerttb0jq7UQb/nAp05bsrB7XH1Vs+1ON9lUPEfWRmwQcrVK5JUrUWa/4tA/UeM XvFcPFtFluGTlLewgJIqcvjPXFwpbDZprXJsMkwew/A6B6n3+0sbgf7p3QSGkVbi dwQAymTbHdYqLnbcnKZhjto3Wjw1J5QB2wuiRYlpjV3i7AWTGlqoSTOWCCV+HamQ qeFYNYAWNFx3+J/oi7xDi8t9bHVNA205equ+y2sj3G5uGJ6LSHQ8AXp9uOipUUvU 1MJN0yLXr9PIwvi5Ag0EUfv3swEQAL0+MnxHGrTjSYdfdua4SBpmytDONM1EngeY s+WyaC/760MughKbaysI/nK2LB1vnwEY7f3NM4fxBx8u2T7VBm6Ez6Fs23Bb8Rkz f97bPSdxCmg64GPHfLA9uwTIXcYS+MpI86WOf6eWY0rRpf7Y9Nl7YoUNvzOyUPqc ggdcnHce8zYv7A/WS8flZDm8tVFPsHrQDEwNMws7ZhiNnHkeZeRJrvCuB7oEVich O/ROYoA5o6NozWYQbjxe1f6Yur4Q10qgVcxVnyLFJSbg6vZSzL7KYh3Z5iBOzPHt 7cwEDrW8W4Kl2Qj8rhJ4Wxs94CAtua7IXK44sVZWQbyHcOXRikgGMZKkEZzVCQa5 KD1u1ZrcBCyuMAir0hsmS3jhCUwpiE2c3SRk8O8CgixhTcBk0X/k9ZFu3Hbi1JMB FLzs/Nq3tYAYvVivhPloSxmYBPsafYHCZM83yBNNsralXh5zjB+di90G+AMXt2PN LTcdovZuWtC0s8/jrx+zv/AA4FAGYU9OVl+YL9ybFX8gSdMEcixyzQcKfiFBjpWv 5iFrwIuDlaXMcheyrhc9aGOxfx44OXc505+VjO/1Q/8EOWlJ6UwOi6GMkj5T+RFJ MDyP0UixS7dt6wTuD5t6PRuyWWxZswgrbL9hjwGFr154Z19TWeNWc23pWtUvQJos UCxl2nFHABEBAAGJBD4EGAECAAkFAlH797MCGy4CKQkQhN8ffmrgNkTBXSAEGQEC AAYFAlH797MACgkQJEPd69lQ0evA+Q/+M7lSFlrQWiRsFqDjh+kTJc+0OEBCvnfo N2KPyXXbfc//qup55PfEygE6C60zvrlv3WE33GZ5GS5MLuDMP82b+a5Yt16NQU7L WtAg1g0S0BvazW+28TgnfO8bhbGaFeE9ccw3xLmlbwZQ3f3LtMKdwFIROiG6hvAs 9U54QYti3tv9DowRYYWpdr0Ga8RqeGNtCKc0v2opy51MpzKWjwUW0i3XlSlyY8Lj 1KT8PyznNPw32nYpmDizz+0OUJNnn/kT+GnFoR3DJnFosTOrnxFJp+N+nejMp/gW r9NM0/E7H+P53IiytBOt5/0vsOaCFGdYGhKEjmJi3dHS4Xk1ObD1mjdD1YDOlWWU 3Md6BDHd4W7Q8gT7oQfTIMLd3HzV+WNPIdocPLBaeA/tRD8Pg5CCmncAmSub4F5T An7FlnACtSOv3cIWQ0TymS42DihDaJ5d1RvNzKw+zHYdPvf471JFZR3TDhkPbLIr 9czR7kbpnXRwchgwXQn306NVWf37TgA8wpbnFTazZ38iOeqcb9oKprqnbgEdr3PN OhKSlMTkzAqf3MEi2Fyua4BADMhS3oBwCRgDTlt6wquEytpNSlZaHnyiyIgOpekF Uy5K3w8NhHqeifRPrNb/UcCbXtXz+puqIEZHMenpv6FRlTTKpdoHoVXSkp1TPMGN /VaCiLbP4Z3xEw/9EbAJJkhmmx1Qw3ueoqc4h1MmhUtIdxSZ/oA9SjwlnY++zvaZ 6w1wTS4P+OUkETNDtItdpxXMJ9qfSy9voAQc2K43WMZCCmpPJYSdqaZZNPFj+Ne8 6FNtNKuUkXREybpHwlVAXnHzInmFOOM9RAmF70r3zEmKt77W1ztBLo2o9X79gPgL u9ThgrH6Oc2k46n+9nc3joccr7miiX/bp976DNWcWdOYThiSSOCb8Zw9/Zs935i1 wUVkYTj24tmBH4H5ov9ib7RPmU21ru458RbUKG0ONAqBtAHNyXHzUnXsrke+D4VW MI06YcXSk8YeYgQ8GxgHQc+W2bb8LIbKN1hEYJ0wzM62vKR2/Oiwuf8lXutIKTuz +v7Vj1PQd66DGHsxtWRaWnr1c54JTL2wICHJYKFH4grp7864+GL/uQ1O/Z/XxVku E1JQ/AnwBGU1M1S6otwWGWVRjzEzQtxsfcCEPvV/9td3FIFQAbGTPb+48XFU+TY9 8AlcXBlDzXq7c5f8Evn/oSIsZDt63K4HNTmMGqOTl/p1aA0e4eyX76LczY06rDP5 GMSNs+AHmYgZiS4RYhRUIvS9uLXMnnDAMYst0SDl2orDUUeHBTzu0rchyknBZMGP p5wQuWQ9CFlV+dj3UYbrBwC1lTkAMXRG2vlhA0V0TZqos7A5D4VHgSUQQjE= =otlL -----END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK-----

8 11

Relay-Bandwith
by Oliver Schönefeld 09 Nov '13

09 Nov '13

hey folks i'm having some issues with my bandwidth... my ISP is offering 50 Mbps downstream 10 Mbps up, so i thought i'd share 20 Mbps max and 15 Mbps avg (respectively 2560 KBps max and 1920 KBps avg) in a inner tor-relay. so i put the latter vaues in the bandwith-limits tab of the sharing options in vidalia with the download speed set to custom. However the tor metrics indicate an advertised bandwith of 317,44 KBps and the worldmap of vidalia even shows just 20 KBps :( So my question is now: Can this be improved and if so, what should i do about it? Or is this maybe because the relay isn't even up 24 hrs and the bandwith will level in somehow later? thx 4 any advice in advance, 1v3ry

4 3

Re: [tor-relays] tor-relays Digest, Vol 34, Issue 22
by that guy 09 Nov '13

09 Nov '13

On 11/09/2013 11:32 AM, tor-relays-request(a)lists.torproject.org wrote: > Using a VPN *might* work, but Microsoft blocks access from many of those too. > > Complaining to Microsoft, especially if you're a paying Skype customer, might not help, but it can't hurt. Same boat but with two woman on two continents and both use Mshit and there is not a chance in the world that they will ever ever ever get jitsi, linphone, Ekiga or any of the other joke excuses for a Skype replacement going. Until there is a non-MS solution that lets non-techies use a service like that from behind NAT they are a HUGE waste of developer's time not to mention consumers. Take a look at the Ekiga mailing list, makes the problems people have with tor relay's seem like child's play. It is almost pathetic listening to them try to help people who WILL NEVER manage to get one up and running. It is a joke. My VPN blocks Skype. I tried hard to get rid of it but it is just not possible unless it's another geek that you are talking to. Complaining to MS or Apple can hurt actually, in the hopelessness area. May end up hanging yourself after trying to talk to them.

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