- tor-relays - lists.torproject.org

Running 2 relays with 0.4.0.2_alpha [err] descriptor at 0x8a0acdb0830 begins with unexpected string "".
by technonerd＠fea.st 02 Mar '19

02 Mar '19

I run one relay and another tor instance for hidden services and socksport. Haven't had a problem until 0.4.0.2_alpha. Ive had it crash twice so far. Maybe my configs aren't sane? [err] descriptor at 0x8a0acdb0830 begins with unexpected string "". Is another process running in our data directory? Exiting. First config User tor PIDFile /var/run/tor2/tor2.pid SOCKSPort 9052 ControlPort 9053 Log notice file /var/lib/tor2/notices.log RunAsDaemon 1 DataDirectory /var/lib/tor2/data CookieAuthentication 1 ClientUseIPv6 1 ClientPreferIPv6ORPort 1 ClientPreferIPv6DirPort 1 HiddenServiceDir /var/lib/tor2/ssh/ HiddenServicePort 22 127.0.0.1:22 HiddenServiceDir /var/lib/tor2/ssh-new/ HiddenServiceVersion 3 HiddenServicePort 22 127.0.0.1:22 HiddenServiceDir /var/lib/tor2/bitcoind/ HiddenServicePort 8333 127.0.0.1:8333 Second config User tor PIDFile /var/run/tor/tor.pid Log notice syslog Log notice file /var/log/tor/debug.log #Log notice debug file /var/lib/tor/data/tor.log DataDirectory /var/lib/tor/data ControlPort 9051 HashedControlPassword CookieAuthentication 1 ORPort 9001 ORPort []:9050 DirPort 9030 BandwidthRate 4 MBytes BandwidthBurst 5 MBytes Nickname PancakeWhore ContactInfo ExitPolicy reject *:* ExitPolicy reject6 *:*

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Tor End-of-Life Reminder for tor 0.3.3
by nusenu 02 Mar '19

02 Mar '19

Hi, this is a reminder for everyone still running tor 0.3.3.x. This version reached end of life on 2019-02-28 https://trac.torproject.org/projects/tor/wiki/org/teams/NetworkTeam/CoreTor… Please keep your relays updated to a version that is still supported. Here is a list affected operators (with cwfr >=0.01) sorted by consensus weight fraction +----------------------------------------------------+---------------------------------------------+------+ | contact | versions | cwfr | +----------------------------------------------------+---------------------------------------------+------+ | abuse(a)to-surf-and-protect.net | 0.3.3.9 | 3.19 | | Servbr Admin <servbr [AT] mail [DOT] md> | 0.3.3.7 | 0.29 | | tor terjan net | 0.3.2.10,0.3.3.7,0.3.3.9 | 0.18 | | florentin aatt rochet ddoott be; LTC: LhRqJZu6U87B | 0.3.3.9 | 0.14 | | Admin <tor(a)ngc292.space> | 0.3.1.9,0.3.2.9 | 0.13 | | tor[at]zeroday.rocks | 0.3.3.9 | 0.12 | | 4096R/61263264 tux3 <barrdetwix(a)gmail.com> | 0.3.3.5-rc | 0.11 | | abuse(a)to-surf-and-protect.de | 0.3.3.9 | 0.11 | | tesuji - 1FZWmNWLrnzGCPPturD3GSiRfHk7vSuSbM | 0.3.0.10 | 0.11 | | Thomas Steen Rasmussen / Tykling <thomas(a)gibfest.d | 0.3.3.7 | 0.11 | | hedonist.jane77(a)tutanota.com | 0.3.3.9 | 0.10 | | Boris Nagaev 19pZzECKDDMbSpaWEy8vGvELEfXM8GrkHS <b | 0.3.2.10 | 0.09 | | contact(a)paulbsd.com | 0.3.2.10 | 0.09 | | 1Q5fZnsG5BSizXmJbrq8FsACnd6kSTBju7 | 0.3.3.7 | 0.08 | | Zwiebel <zwiebel(a)kawo2.rwth-aachen.de> | 0.3.3.9 | 0.08 | | Peter Pan <peterpan(a)fscore.de> | 0.3.2.10 | 0.07 | | Stash Crypto <infrastructure AT stashcrypto dot co | 0.3.1.10 | 0.07 | | DFRI <tor AT dfri dot se> - 1Muz37TfXVBiJKRJkAqTNo | 0.3.3.9 | 0.06 | | Orkan G\u00FCndogdu <orkan95(a)gmail.com> | 0.3.2.10 | 0.06 | | Tor Relay Admin <tor-admin AT meurisse DOT fr> | 0.3.3.9 | 0.06 | | <Mr. Cha Cha> DoTheChaCha(a)protonmail.com | 0.3.3.9 | 0.05 | | drift(a)multinet.no - 1Geq8GGC7qTh7dfptneAYtpeARPAL8 | 0.3.3.9 | 0.05 | | Itzhak Daniel <itzhak+tor(a)itk98.net> | 0.3.1.10 | 0.05 | | Torchwood <contact [at] pakitow [dot] eu> | 0.3.2.10 | 0.05 | | 0x77A31D11 Tony Olagbaiye <frony0 AT gmail dot com | 0.3.0.10 | 0.04 | | 20EE126C6B5C53D48F9D3D21C582B6E15BF059B9 Roman rom | 0.3.3.7 | 0.04 | | 3583217664127336(at)gmail(dot)com [tor-relay.co] | 0.3.3.7 | 0.04 | | Brad Koehn <tor(a)koehn.com> | 0.3.3.8 | 0.04 | | kirtrib(a)gmail.com | 0.3.3.9 | 0.04 | | MaggiWuerze admin(a)maggiwuerze.de | 0.3.1.10 | 0.04 | | Random Person <nobody AT example dot com> | 0.2.5.16,0.3.0.9,0.3.3.7,0.3.3.9 | 0.04 | | seedelmann [you know what belongs here] edelmann [ | 0.3.3.9 | 0.04 | | tor at cybercyber dot wtf | 0.2.5.16 | 0.04 | | Tor Reactor <0d0[AT]protonmail.com> | u42omsvzmh7 | 0.3.3.9 | 0.04 | | tor(a)niij.io | 0.3.3.8 | 0.04 | | torrelay(a)brave.com | 0.3.3.7 | 0.04 | | [ben] <at> [benatherton] <dot> [com] | 0.3.3.9 | 0.04 | | 0x9F29C15D42A8B6F3 Nos oignons <adminsys@nos-oigno | 0.3.3.9 | 0.03 | | 0xA711D81A m_price-at-mit-dot-edu 12fymnTuJsMEgUeR | 0.3.3.9 | 0.03 | | 0xF85959ECB7238802 foertel <mehl(a)foertel.com> | 0.3.3.9 | 0.03 | | 0xFFFFFFFF Random Person <nobody AT example dot co | 0.2.4.29,0.3.2.10,0.3.3.9,0.4.1.0-alpha-dev | 0.03 | | 145tXZyQEfdmpYhmbFtYe84kjghB5ymPA4 swraysford at g | 0.3.3.9 | 0.03 | | 1EpHny(a)protonmail.com - 1EpHnyDUC66N9dMJCyb3Zsc7ws | 0.3.3.9 | 0.03 | | 4096R/0x4cf76925833e2e24 Knight <knight AT germanc | 0.3.3.9 | 0.03 | | 4096R/5819E33F Zhongfu Li <tor at zhongfu dot li> | 0.3.2.10 | 0.03 | | a b u s e. TAT r o t e z e l l e. TOT n e t | 0.3.3.7 | 0.03 | | Alex de Joode <usura(a)sabotage.org> | 0.3.2.9 | 0.03 | | Donate : 1BcGs8GAJwVQ6BpTN9BtRcKvGWzLnmcXwK (UVZCU | 0.3.3.9 | 0.03 | | jim(dot)r(at)outlook(dot)com | 0.3.3.9 | 0.03 | | jimmy(at)bulanik(dot)nl | 0.3.3.7 | 0.03 | | mward44(at)uwo(dot)ca | 0.3.3.9 | 0.03 | | Niccolo <none AT your dot biz> | 0.4.1.0-alpha-dev | 0.03 | | Nicholas Merrill <nick AT calyx dot com> BTC - 14w | 0.2.5.16 | 0.03 | | PhilibertAspert(at)obfuscated(dot)com [tor-relay.c | 0.3.3.6 | 0.03 | | Random Person caceyjones(a)gmail.com | 0.3.2.10 | 0.03 | | sykotik.org US tor node | 0.3.2.10 | 0.03 | | Tor Operator <tor(a)hezmatt.org> | 0.2.5.16 | 0.03 | | tor(at)0day.rocks | 0.3.2.10 | 0.03 | | tor-admin <tor(a)mnesys.org> | 0.3.3.7 | 0.03 | | Torservers.net <support .AT. torservers .DOT. net> | 0.3.2.10 | 0.03 | | 0xB83A02ED Randy Bush <randy AT psg dot com> | 0.3.3.9 | 0.02 | | 0xB9A02A3D Pavol Rusnak <stick+tor(a)gk2.sk> | 0.3.1.8 | 0.02 | | 0xF30A703B Ahh.si abuse <ahh.si+abuse[at]enowaves[ | 0.3.3.9 | 0.02 | | : | 0.3.2.10 | 0.02 | | <hostmaster at denetron dot com> | 0.3.3.9 | 0.02 | | <idabwells AT systemli dot org> | 0.3.3.6 | 0.02 | | <mknoszlig AT zeroton dot in> | 0.3.2.10 | 0.02 | | admin <arbuckletor AT gmail dot com> | 0.3.3.9 | 0.02 | | admin(a)notoriousbit.net | 0.3.3.9 | 0.02 | | Administrator <contact(a)tor-node.net> - BTC 15HkPq8 | 0.2.8.11 | 0.02 | | agata-relay AT jawnosc dot com | 0.3.2.10 | 0.02 | | Alexander Bernhard <alexanderbernhard80 AT gmail d | 0.3.2.10 | 0.02 | | ALEXANDR UVAROV <dbeelial MM gmail.com Nasse-Catte | 0.2.5.16 | 0.02 | | alexkovalev(dot)1990(at)mail(dot)ru [tor-relay.co] | 0.3.3.9 | 0.02 | | calgary2k17(at)gmail(dot)com | 0.3.3.9 | 0.02 | | hannesexner91+tor(a)googlemail.com | 0.2.5.16 | 0.02 | | hoFFy <sebastian @ machinewithoutbrain.de> | 0.3.3.9 | 0.02 | | horst(a)faust-home.de | 0.2.5.16,0.3.2.10 | 0.02 | | isorry(a)no.no | 0.3.2.10 | 0.02 | | Ivanushka Durachok <torstrasse dot leak at spamgou | 0.3.2.10 | 0.02 | | Jon Proulx <jon AT csail dot mit dot edu> GPG Key | 0.3.3.9 | 0.02 | | Kd8hln.com Jeffschefke(a)gmail.com | 0.3.1.9 | 0.02 | | kernelexpl0it(a)jabber.ru | 0.3.2.10 | 0.02 | | madnight madnight <danon(a)gmx.de> | 0.3.1.10 | 0.02 | | Marvin Moloczek <tor(a)moloczek.com> | 0.3.2.10 | 0.02 | | nino [dash] tor [at] ninov [dot] de (gpg B8D657E63 | 0.3.3.7 | 0.02 | | no6gaeda(a)gmail.com | 0.3.3.9 | 0.02 | | none | 0.3.2.10,0.3.3.9 | 0.02 | | Phillip <phillip(a)dangernoodle.de> | 0.3.2.10 | 0.02 | | potlatch protonmail com | 0.3.3.7,0.3.3.9 | 0.02 | | PrisnCell <PrisnCellTor AT tutamail dot com> | 0.3.3.7 | 0.02 | | r.team.hq(a)yandex.ru | 0.3.3.9 | 0.02 | | randm(a)tuta.io | 0.3.2.10 | 0.02 | | RARvolt <rarvolt(a)rarvolt.net> | 0.2.8.12 | 0.02 | | Scott Maxwell tor-contact-2017-beratna (at) scottm | 0.2.5.16 | 0.02 | | ss [aT] xcoin [d0t] ro BTC: bc1q49wsl94gdwpphngpp7 | 0.4.1.0-alpha-dev | 0.02 | | starfleet --at-- trash ..dot.. net | 0.3.3.9 | 0.02 | | suporte(a)wirelesspt.net | 0.3.3.8 | 0.02 | | theshadowghost(a)rambler.ru | 0.3.3.9 | 0.02 | | tor [at] skeeerus [dot] club [tor-relay.co] | 0.3.3.6 | 0.02 | | tor(a)argute.io | 0.3.3.9 | 0.02 | | tor(a)i19.se - 1KN4W7FpzUPURwRQrVGsQCptbR34Kb8n9x | 0.3.3.5-rc | 0.02 | | tormate(at)tuta(dot)io [tor-relay.co] | 0.3.1.9 | 0.02 | | torpids AT yahoo dot com - 1JYHfzVFVD7n2Sezz3DEHDF | 0.3.3.3-alpha | 0.02 | | tor_relay(a)f00bar.wtf | 0.3.2.10 | 0.02 | | ${CONTACT_GPG_FINGERPRINT} ${CONTACT_NAME} ${CONTA | 0.3.1.10,0.3.1.9 | 0.01 | | 0x112CA89F scholzi100 <tor(a)scholzi100.de> 1436DgS4 | 0.3.3.7 | 0.01 | | 0x65714c2b6f3b74cb Thijs Houtenbos <info@thijshout | 0.3.3.9 | 0.01 | | 0xA5CBA13E <tor[AT]d0p1[dot]eu> - 19wzjCe4m6YiiAh | 0.3.2.10 | 0.01 | | 0xB3AC4F40BC396055 Stephan Henrichs <stiepen <twen | 0.3.3.9 | 0.01 | | 59FDAC19FBC4E692652F3EB0C7B7552BDF21283B Smith <qt | 0.3.3.7 | 0.01 | | <548af91b673e7d80d6c9> 9i2c2ranzbol13aif568 at x.o | 0.3.3.6 | 0.01 | | <ben + tor [at] graef . in> 128qLZCaGdoWhBTfaS7ryt | 0.3.3.9 | 0.01 | | <onions at mit dot edu> | 0.3.2.10 | 0.01 | | <pdestor(a)lelantos.org> | 0.3.3.7 | 0.01 | | <tor - chaoshosting . de> | 0.3.1.9 | 0.01 | | <tor AT geekariom dot com> | 0.3.3.9 | 0.01 | | @jbrps 0x588F6C31 <jonas(a)rz-k.de> | 0.3.3.9 | 0.01 | | Admin <admin AT tor-relay dot io> | 0.3.2.10 | 0.01 | | amuse <tor-amuse%foofus.com> | 0.3.2.10 | 0.01 | | Anonymous | 0.2.4.27,0.2.8.12,0.3.2.10 | 0.01 | | Anonymous Coward <anonymous AT nullhost dot net> | 0.3.1.9 | 0.01 | | Antonio Maia <antonio.maia(a)protonmail.com> | 0.3.2.10 | 0.01 | | christianbro <at> yandex <dot> ru - 1D1EjYEGHFPmc8 | 0.2.7.6 | 0.01 | | DeaVulTan <deavultan(a)tuta.io> | 0.2.4.27 | 0.01 | | edgar.tor.uk(a)gmail.com | 0.3.3.6 | 0.01 | | Fabian Schlenz tormaster(a)schle.nz | 0.3.3.7 | 0.01 | | FEC1 B783 BE51 F6E1 DD1B 86C5 A847 5092 E7C3 76AA | 0.3.3.7 | 0.01 | | g <g @ eryd DOT net> | 0.2.4.27 | 0.01 | | human(a)google.com | 0.3.2.10 | 0.01 | | ICOSADEV TOR <icosadev(a)gmail.com> | 0.3.0.9 | 0.01 | | Inbox: tor/sevenlayers/org | 0.3.2.10 | 0.01 | | inbox(a)wooodoka.ru | 0.2.6.10 | 0.01 | | Kristofer Hallin mail(a)krihal.se | 0.3.3.7 | 0.01 | | lagartobostero(a)hotmail.com | 0.3.3.7 | 0.01 | | Me <wiz.ard(a)gmx.net> | 0.3.3.7 | 0.01 | | Meet me on the balcony | 0.3.3.6 | 0.01 | | Micah Sherr <msherr(a)cs.georgetown.edu> | 0.3.2.9-dev | 0.01 | | mshepard2(a)maricopa.edu | 0.3.2.10 | 0.01 | | Nick Sheppard <nicksheppard03(a)gmail.com> | 0.2.7.6 | 0.01 | | ohello(a)tuta.io | 0.3.0.13 | 0.01 | | Person d(a)mdng.me | 0.2.5.12 | 0.01 | | PGK <tor at the-goober.net> | 0.3.3.9 | 0.01 | | Pierre <pierre+tor at ratni dot v4v dot be> | 0.3.3.7 | 0.01 | | Random Person <periplanetaamericanus AT gmail dot | 0.3.3.9 | 0.01 | | Random Person <tor at 1d4 dot us> - 1N7sBLKvekRD4E | 0.3.3.6 | 0.01 | | Random Person tort(a)pike.pl | 0.3.1.9 | 0.01 | | Ranlvor <tor AT starletp9 dot de> | 0.3.3.9 | 0.01 | | rhfred(a)disroot.org | 0.3.2.10 | 0.01 | | Rogemedic <admin(a)waltersnet.noip.us> | 0.3.2.10 | 0.01 | | shallot protonmail com | 0.3.3.3-alpha | 0.01 | | support @ TORdashRELAYdotUS | 0.3.2.10 | 0.01 | | Sysadmin of the Day Role Person <wbb aaaaattttt fa | 0.3.2.10 | 0.01 | | TC <thinkcolorful AT thinkcolorful dot org> | 0.3.3.9 | 0.01 | | Tobias Meggendorfer Mail:<tobias .AT. meggendorfer | 0.3.2.10 | 0.01 | | tor(a)alexdpsg.net | 0.3.3.9 | 0.01 | | tor(a)haltmayer.com | 0.3.3.9 | 0.01 | | tor(a)remus.be | 0.3.3.8 | 0.01 | | twink0r @ twitter | 0.3.3.7 | 0.01 | | was.small(a)was.info | 0.3.3.9 | 0.01 | | Wubim Foundation <services AT wubim DOT com> | 0.3.1.9 | 0.01 | | Wubim Foundation <services AT wubim.com> | 0.3.3.9 | 0.01 | +----------------------------------------------------+---------------------------------------------+------+ -- https://twitter.com/nusenu_ https://mastodon.social/@nusenu

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Debugging ipv6 conenctivity
by Charly Ghislain 25 Feb '19

25 Feb '19

Hi all, My tor relay has got the UnreachableIpv6 flag set once i mentionned an OrPort with my ipv6 address. >From what i can tell, my server is reachable over ipv6, and can contact the directory authorities through ipv6 (following the instructions found there: https://trac.torproject.org/projects/tor/wiki/TorRelayGuide#Makesurerelaypo… ). The node is behind an haproxy that relays ipv6 traffic to natted ipv4 (with no logging for those concerned). It seems to work fine for web content over ipv6, and traffic on both ips (v4 and v6) goes through this channel. I can successfully telnet my node ORPort using my v6 address. The ports have been defined this way in torrc: ORPort 0.0.0.0:9001 NoAdvertise ORPort 91.121.79.188:9001 NoListen ORPort [2001:41d0:1:84bc::1]:9001 NoListen Is there a way to make a tor client connect to a specific relay to debug this kind of connectivity issues? Or any other mean? In the meantime ive removed the advertized ip6. Regards, Charly

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Regarding linux-tor-prio.sh script
by rl1987＠sdf.lonestar.org 24 Feb '19

24 Feb '19

Hello, Tor repository contains the following script, that has not been updated much in last 10 years or so: https://gitweb.torproject.org/tor.git/tree/contrib/operator-tools/linux-tor… Do people still use? Is it safe to remove it from the repo? Regards

1 0

Memory Used dropped again with 0.3.5.8
by petrarca＠protonmail.ch 24 Feb '19

24 Feb '19

Just an fyi for those who might be interested... With upgrading to 0.3.5.8 the memory usage of my Tor relay dropped again to reasonable levels. It suddenly started to increase end of January causing my relay to crash twice before leveling around 45% (a week before I had an ISP outage). Now it's back to around 25%. The relay bandwidth consumed over all the time was pretty much stable. [Memory Used.png]

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relayor v19.0.0 is released
by nusenu 23 Feb '19

23 Feb '19

Hi, relayor has been made for relay operators to help them install and manage tor relays with minimal effort. https://github.com/nusenu/ansible-relayor Changes since v18.1.1 ------------------------------ - torrc: enable tor's Sandbox feature by default on Ubuntu (where it was previously disabled as a workaround for #160 ) don't set tor RelayBandwidthBurst if the input field is empty - increase tor_alpha_version 0.3.4.x -> 0.4.0.x - increase min ansible version 2.6.2 -> 2.7.8 - add support for OpenBSD 6.4 - add support for FreeBSD 12 (drop 10.x) - README: mark CentOS/Fedora as currently broken due to upstream package issues #185 - test-kitchen: add OpenBSD support add guard-alpha test-suite kind regards, nusenu -- https://twitter.com/nusenu_ https://mastodon.social/@nusenu

1 0

How To Add Reachable Ports To OBFS4 Bridge
by Keifer Bly 22 Feb '19

22 Feb '19

Hi all, So I am looking to add some reachable ports to my OBFS4 bridge at https://metrics.torproject.org/rs.html#details/148BD64BED9F2C27637D986DE032E CF14E5B9E9A As this list is public, I guess I should not provide the port numbers that tor and obfs4 are running on. However, would adding reachable ports like 80, 443, 8080 be doable? I know that these ports that might not bind very well as lots of other types of traffic use them, however I saw the ticket at https://trac.torproject.org/projects/tor/ticket/7875 And this raises a concern about bridges being reachable for users who are connecting from behind firewalls, etc (hence the reason why they need to use a bridge), it seems like a good idea to have bridges reachable on ports that aren't likely to be blocked by network administrators or ISPS. Let me know what you think. --Keifer

2 2

Relay operators meetup Lisbon (23.02.2019)
by Vasilis 22 Feb '19

22 Feb '19

Dear Tor friends and relay operators, Tomorrow (23.02.2019) a relay operators meetup will take place at Block cafe, Berlin. When: Saturday, February 23rd, 2019 Time: 15:00 / 3:00 PM Where: Block Cafe, Rua Latino Coelho 63, 1st floor, 1050-133, Lisbon, Portugal Event link: https://privacylx.org/en/events/tormeetup3/ Hope to see many of you there! Cheers, ~Vasilis -- Fingerprint: 8FD5 CF5F 39FC 03EB B382 7470 5FBF 70B1 D126 0162 Pubkey: https://pgp.mit.edu/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0x5FBF70B1D1260162

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Tor relay on Verizon FiOS/FTTH: Advertised Bandwidth capped at ~19.5MiB/s
by Neel Chauhan 19 Feb '19

19 Feb '19

Hi tor-relays@ mailing list, I have a Tor relay "NeelTorRelay2": https://metrics.torproject.org/rs.html#details/D5B8C38539C509380767D4DE20DE… This relay is hosted on a 300 mbps Verizon FiOS (FTTH/GPON) connection. My server is a HPE ProLiant MicroServer Gen10 (quad-core AMD X3421 variant) running FreeBSD, and my router is a Linksys WRT1900AC running OpenWrt. For some reason, the Advertised Bandwidth is not going above ~19.5 MiB/s. If my relay is pushing 10MB/s (80mbps) at a given time, the CPU usage is around 20%, so I don't think its the CPU. My question is that is this lower Advertised Bandwidth speeds normal for a relay hosted on a connection behind a consumer level router and it's NAT table (even despite OpenWrt)? Could it be Verizon's DPI/QoS now that Net Neutrality is repealed? Would using a non-consumer router (like Ubiquiti or pfSense) help? Thank You, Neel Chauhan === https://www.neelc.org/

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Re: [tor-relays] Tor relay on Verizon FiOS/FTTH: Advertised Bandwidth capped at ~19.5MiB/s
by starlight.2018q2＠binnacle.cx 18 Feb '19

18 Feb '19

Neel Chauhan neel at neelc.org at Mon Feb 18 18:05:47 UTC 2019 > >I feel it's my Linksys WRT1900AC because consumer routers aren't >designed for the traffic high-bandwidth Tor relays handle, even after >flashing things like OpenWrt. The router is probably dropping packets and is problem. Also consumer grade switches generally cannot handle FiOS without dropping tons of packets. A one TCP connection speedtest will not trigger overload the way a 7000 connection Tor router does. Dealt with this here by attaching the Linux server directly to FiOS and having it act as the outside router. The relay would run much better but I fried the mainboard with a PCIx NIC overload; swapped in an incredibly ancient system formerly collecting dust on a shelf. Too busy/lazy to put up the newer box waiting to take it's place.

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