-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA256 Hello, In the last 48 hours we went under the 'psychological' threshold of 1000 Exit Relays in the consensus. Right now, Thu Aug 20 23:57:02 UTC 2015, we have: 6234 Running relays 954 Exit relays I think we can improve this balance. Let's do it! This is a call for everyone: Please run Exit relays, or if you are running a middle relay turn it into an Exit relay! I have been running high capacity Exit relays for a very long time, and I tell you it's not a headache and it will not attract any problems if you just take care of the abuse complaints. During this very long time, 98% of the abuse complaints were automated messages which can safely be ignored (fail2ban notifications, portscans, web CMS plugins sending reports about http fetches, etc.) and the rest were from very nice people who didn't know what Tor is and how it works, but after explaining to them they actually liked the idea - gives you a really nice feeling. Only 2 times I have received email from law enforcement agents (which are just normal people like us, doing a hard job) - a complete and clear explanation was all that it took for them to fully understand and eliminate any doubt that the server in question is somehow interesting to them. Tor is _legal_ in all sane countries! We as a community are here and I give you my word that me and others will personally assist, in the measure and ways we can, whoever runs into troubles because of running an exit, which is highly unlikely. It is recommended to reject in your policy port 25 (it's not needed and it will blacklist you for spam messages if you leave it open). Allow all other ports, or use the reduced exit policy from torproject.org if you want to allow only what is highly necessary. Don't think any longer about it ;) - - Email me directly any time if you need technical support in setting things up, hardening the server or need a customized setup adapted to certain conditions. - - Email me directly any time if you have the funds needed to run a Tor exit relay but don't know how to set it up, where to get it from or don't want to rent and run it under your real name. - - Email me directly any time if you need instructions about how to deal with abuse complaints and short templates for replies. For live chat come on IRC, OFTC network, #tor channel. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (MingW32) iQEcBAEBCAAGBQJV1m+CAAoJEIN/pSyBJlsRhD8H/3NpZniYVIELenCvxKNKIEeR J6hvSIwsAJUzlk+Hm5v74f7uzeXoLwA8z/FtzKCBVACOvUoCo1b4/2hF3wBMDfcw CsSZC0AkkIdF+4ePSIsjAU8giOr2uXkCS9CSoRyDnIebmyx5RkSnFDXgTg6/QLJT YJBuTrAA2anxqCHmqL9xHEDM40JhTMP6N6CR3aR4CCPkVOeELyyLTSgb637rZzUs EuRkliktZifirhENxOHzvMVv4D4X60lXeSo1i347gdPwTGuNpiL5fPu+ET0E1sTh Ol8Prvi6XP9yBojW7Up0q1y6083JkguLTbxQDomnqEYT7LCCqAFVBwdc1xWUdg0= =kFIY -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
Heya, Great post, and looking at the tor metrics graph, it seems exit relay bandwidth has been stable, perhaps extremely slowly rising over the past 365 days. So we have less relays but the same bandwidth, which is good for the consensus but bad for anonymity. I think people who don't run exit nodes but run relays (like this mailing list) don't do Exits for 2 main reasons: #1: Abuse, legal, time etc. concerns, which is what most news articles talk about, like yourself. And #2: Cost. Take me for example, I have no trouble handling abuse, operation, and legal things that take up time, but it's hard to justify $X/mo towards Tor as opposed to $X/mo towards my student loan. So, I'm not going to flat out ask for it, particularly on a relay mailing list, but that's a reason I don't do it, and I'd imagine the cost, time, and abuse are the main reasons most people opt-out. What would be a nice dream is if we got people together who opted out for different reasons. Such that person A wants to support in money, but not technical/time/abuse-handling/etc. got together with Person B who puts in the technical/time/abuse-handling/etc. but can't put money into the system. Just an idea if there are any Person A's out there looking for a Person B like me. :) -12xBTM On 20.8.15 20:23, s7r wrote:
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA256
Hello,
In the last 48 hours we went under the 'psychological' threshold of 1000 Exit Relays in the consensus. Right now, Thu Aug 20 23:57:02 UTC 2015, we have:
6234 Running relays 954 Exit relays
I think we can improve this balance. Let's do it!
This is a call for everyone: Please run Exit relays, or if you are running a middle relay turn it into an Exit relay!
I have been running high capacity Exit relays for a very long time, and I tell you it's not a headache and it will not attract any problems if you just take care of the abuse complaints.
During this very long time, 98% of the abuse complaints were automated messages which can safely be ignored (fail2ban notifications, portscans, web CMS plugins sending reports about http fetches, etc.) and the rest were from very nice people who didn't know what Tor is and how it works, but after explaining to them they actually liked the idea - gives you a really nice feeling. Only 2 times I have received email from law enforcement agents (which are just normal people like us, doing a hard job) - a complete and clear explanation was all that it took for them to fully understand and eliminate any doubt that the server in question is somehow interesting to them.
Tor is _legal_ in all sane countries! We as a community are here and I give you my word that me and others will personally assist, in the measure and ways we can, whoever runs into troubles because of running an exit, which is highly unlikely.
It is recommended to reject in your policy port 25 (it's not needed and it will blacklist you for spam messages if you leave it open). Allow all other ports, or use the reduced exit policy from torproject.org if you want to allow only what is highly necessary.
Don't think any longer about it ;) - - Email me directly any time if you need technical support in setting things up, hardening the server or need a customized setup adapted to certain conditions.
- - Email me directly any time if you have the funds needed to run a Tor exit relay but don't know how to set it up, where to get it from or don't want to rent and run it under your real name.
- - Email me directly any time if you need instructions about how to deal with abuse complaints and short templates for replies.
For live chat come on IRC, OFTC network, #tor channel. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (MingW32)
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On 08/20/2015 08:42 PM, 12xBTM wrote:
And #2: Cost. Take me for example, I have no trouble handling abuse, operation, and legal things that take up time, but it's hard to justify $X/mo towards Tor as opposed to $X/mo towards my student loan.
You can rent a real (not virtual) 100Mbps server for less than $10/month. I realize that $10 can be a lot of money if you're struggling to put food on the table. For others, though, that's the cost of 2 beverages at Starbucks per month. Not such a burden. There is also the option of donating money to organizations that run exit nodes. This is less desirable than running an exit yourself (due to further concentration of exit capability by big players) but still beneficial. I doubt that they would turn away a $5/month donation.
Do you have a name of that host that will run a dedicated 100Mbps unmetered exit for <$10/mo? Because I was looking at Speak Freely's suggestion of PulseServers with their "1Gbit unmetered" VPS's for $10-$18/mo, which seems pretty reasonable if you get even 20% of that bandwidth. On 21.8.15 7:43, Steve Snyder wrote:
On 08/20/2015 08:42 PM, 12xBTM wrote:
And #2: Cost. Take me for example, I have no trouble handling abuse, operation, and legal things that take up time, but it's hard to justify $X/mo towards Tor as opposed to $X/mo towards my student loan.
You can rent a real (not virtual) 100Mbps server for less than $10/month.
I realize that $10 can be a lot of money if you're struggling to put food on the table. For others, though, that's the cost of 2 beverages at Starbucks per month. Not such a burden.
There is also the option of donating money to organizations that run exit nodes. This is less desirable than running an exit yourself (due to further concentration of exit capability by big players) but still beneficial. I doubt that they would turn away a $5/month donation.
_______________________________________________ tor-relays mailing list tor-relays@lists.torproject.org https://lists.torproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tor-relays
I believe he is referring to Kimsufi's offerings On 21/08/15 08:21 AM, 12xBTM wrote:
Do you have a name of that host that will run a dedicated 100Mbps unmetered exit for <$10/mo? Because I was looking at Speak Freely's suggestion of PulseServers with their "1Gbit unmetered" VPS's for $10-$18/mo, which seems pretty reasonable if you get even 20% of that bandwidth.
On 21.8.15 7:43, Steve Snyder wrote:
On 08/20/2015 08:42 PM, 12xBTM wrote:
And #2: Cost. Take me for example, I have no trouble handling abuse, operation, and legal things that take up time, but it's hard to justify $X/mo towards Tor as opposed to $X/mo towards my student loan.
You can rent a real (not virtual) 100Mbps server for less than $10/month.
I realize that $10 can be a lot of money if you're struggling to put food on the table. For others, though, that's the cost of 2 beverages at Starbucks per month. Not such a burden.
There is also the option of donating money to organizations that run exit nodes. This is less desirable than running an exit yourself (due to further concentration of exit capability by big players) but still beneficial. I doubt that they would turn away a $5/month donation.
_______________________________________________ tor-relays mailing list tor-relays@lists.torproject.org https://lists.torproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tor-relays
_______________________________________________ tor-relays mailing list tor-relays@lists.torproject.org https://lists.torproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tor-relays
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA512 Kimsufi's TOS explicitly forbid tor, unfortunately. On 08/24/2015 10:07 PM, Manas Bhatnagar wrote:
I believe he is referring to Kimsufi's offerings
On 21/08/15 08:21 AM, 12xBTM wrote:
Do you have a name of that host that will run a dedicated 100Mbps unmetered exit for <$10/mo? Because I was looking at Speak Freely's suggestion of PulseServers with their "1Gbit unmetered" VPS's for $10-$18/mo, which seems pretty reasonable if you get even 20% of that bandwidth.
On 21.8.15 7:43, Steve Snyder wrote:
On 08/20/2015 08:42 PM, 12xBTM wrote:
And #2: Cost. Take me for example, I have no trouble handling abuse, operation, and legal things that take up time, but it's hard to justify $X/mo towards Tor as opposed to $X/mo towards my student loan.
You can rent a real (not virtual) 100Mbps server for less than $10/month.
I realize that $10 can be a lot of money if you're struggling to put food on the table. For others, though, that's the cost of 2 beverages at Starbucks per month. Not such a burden.
There is also the option of donating money to organizations that run exit nodes. This is less desirable than running an exit yourself (due to further concentration of exit capability by big players) but still beneficial. I doubt that they would turn away a $5/month donation.
_______________________________________________ tor-relays mailing list tor-relays@lists.torproject.org https://lists.torproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tor-relays
tor-relays mailing list tor-relays@lists.torproject.org https://lists.torproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tor-relays _______________________________________________ tor-relays mailing list tor-relays@lists.torproject.org https://lists.torproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tor-relays
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12xBTM, did you accidentally encrypt this message rather than signing it?
On 25 Aug 2015, at 21:27, 12xBTM <12xbtm@gmail.com> wrote:
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I'm looking at running an exit. I was looking at the Good/Bad ISP wiki list (trac.torproject.org/projects/tor/wiki/doc/GoodBadISPs). I want something that's known to be exit-friendly, with unlimited data transfer and is relatively cheap. The ISP list doesn't have many ISPs that meet these criteria. I see Pulse Servers ($10/mo), Cinipac (~$12/mo), and Arvixe ($20/mo). Maybe the wiki can be updated with more exit-friendly VPS options? I think the downside of Pulse is that it's on the OVH AS. I see there's a bug tracking that wiki update but it hasn't been updated in 5 months (trac.torproject.org/projects/tor/ticket/13421) I'm happy to use one of the ones I listed, so this is more of a request to update the wiki for everyone :) Thanks, Greg On Tue, Aug 25, 2015 at 2:56 PM, teor <teor2345@gmail.com> wrote:
12xBTM, did you accidentally encrypt this message rather than signing it?
On 25 Aug 2015, at 21:27, 12xBTM <12xbtm@gmail.com> wrote:
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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA512 The wiki is indeed not very up-to-date. You could go on a search for a provider by contacting different VPS or dedicated server providers yourself. A list I check once in a while is https://www.exoticvps.com/ I select the providers that offer suitable packages and contact their support department to see what their stance towards running Tor relays is. Just contact as many as possible and you always have a few that are willing to allow Tor relays. Furthermore it is nice to check their AS numbers in Compass to see how many relays are already present on the AS number in question. On 8/25/15 3:47 PM, Greg wrote:
I'm looking at running an exit. I was looking at the Good/Bad ISP wiki list (trac.torproject.org/projects/tor/wiki/doc/GoodBadISPs). I want something that's known to be exit-friendly, with unlimited data transfer and is relatively cheap. The ISP list doesn't have many ISPs that meet these criteria. I see Pulse Servers ($10/mo), Cinipac (~$12/mo), and Arvixe ($20/mo). Maybe the wiki can be updated with more exit-friendly VPS options? I think the downside of Pulse is that it's on the OVH AS. I see there's a bug tracking that wiki update but it hasn't been updated in 5 months (trac.torproject.org/projects/tor/ticket/13421) I'm happy to use one of the ones I listed, so this is more of a request to update the wiki for everyone :)
Thanks, Greg
On Tue, Aug 25, 2015 at 2:56 PM, teor <teor2345@gmail.com> wrote:
12xBTM, did you accidentally encrypt this message rather than signing it?
On 25 Aug 2015, at 21:27, 12xBTM <12xbtm@gmail.com> wrote:
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- -- Tim Semeijn Babylon Network PGP: 0x2A540FA5 / 3DF3 13FA 4B60 E48A E755 9663 B187 0310 2A54 0FA5 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG/MacGPG2 v2.0.19 (Darwin) Comment: GPGTools - http://gpgtools.org iQIcBAEBCgAGBQJV3HaLAAoJELGHAxAqVA+l3BoQANSXqE8CoGf4ecQ8HPbPLJ09 6cgtw7L0Y/ndNjvYF26Y4XAh6gBdxVcO2QxnDhEWU15sG5nupHsPhk9WHw8UndL4 ENnaT47sLNW20K7oaDIbnxje7ji1ZUi0Fj8ojILyxhPQOP/jM+V4VtKhHDGWLqLR mYogewlRDhLjZaU4Z4m9QAYRXf6rgbGFvMlNQYPmFH0u0H09HlLN4OfXKr5SBMSW GFLtYiUub5Fj6Vd6QnS9zpvIm6NsLBR5nW2xAmTc+7PdYmQ238GvMoqltkpUMCHf 9tK7NH1DK0y5MRR4gkOwFTvdlOXWVSUI/KCdojXACziNF0Rk1wgYus3GSI4uLE1c r38HqxMW+wKjgwazf93mBY7ZfzydLJKoCMRSJpxS+9wLnxs1VYePIXWn03ceiuI9 WJlm9NCcv0RcsmJmigjwlBUuvRikkv0JxC2kLm8LpujOgLXveEww/jbe0BV1OXWT +2uUBWXXpAdHorA+EoS9cHYONfhW0m9tuZpxfvBrhFyLJtFubAdWe+3ld/MlwEiz i8CktZrFV2MLVn/n7qZZU/pmniERpI7ThS1jxplY5R49/JOpblbaslAjFVr5qnFZ 8frORT1GsJyyu6wjskyMB7aB8frpH954/cZ+t/Q9VYESv+zYAn/ROOjPEzxdHANg yvmBBhH3vv4GPfIj0FuM =UaSQ -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
Hi Tim, Thanks for the advice. Regarding the AS numbers, is there a better way to find out a hosting provider's AS number than just googling for it? -Greg On Tue, Aug 25, 2015 at 4:07 PM, NOC <noc@babylon.network> wrote:
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The wiki is indeed not very up-to-date. You could go on a search for a provider by contacting different VPS or dedicated server providers yourself. A list I check once in a while is https://www.exoticvps.com/
I select the providers that offer suitable packages and contact their support department to see what their stance towards running Tor relays is. Just contact as many as possible and you always have a few that are willing to allow Tor relays.
Furthermore it is nice to check their AS numbers in Compass to see how many relays are already present on the AS number in question.
On 8/25/15 3:47 PM, Greg wrote:
I'm looking at running an exit. I was looking at the Good/Bad ISP wiki list (trac.torproject.org/projects/tor/wiki/doc/GoodBadISPs). I want something that's known to be exit-friendly, with unlimited data transfer and is relatively cheap. The ISP list doesn't have many ISPs that meet these criteria. I see Pulse Servers ($10/mo), Cinipac (~$12/mo), and Arvixe ($20/mo). Maybe the wiki can be updated with more exit-friendly VPS options? I think the downside of Pulse is that it's on the OVH AS. I see there's a bug tracking that wiki update but it hasn't been updated in 5 months (trac.torproject.org/projects/tor/ticket/13421) I'm happy to use one of the ones I listed, so this is more of a request to update the wiki for everyone :)
Thanks, Greg
On Tue, Aug 25, 2015 at 2:56 PM, teor <teor2345@gmail.com> wrote:
12xBTM, did you accidentally encrypt this message rather than signing it?
On 25 Aug 2015, at 21:27, 12xBTM <12xbtm@gmail.com> wrote:
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- -- Tim Semeijn Babylon Network
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On 08/25/2015 03:47 PM, Greg wrote:
Maybe the wiki can be updated with more exit-friendly VPS options?
Yes. Do it! :-) It's a wiki, and anyone can just go ahead and edit. lowendbox.com is a good source to hunt for potential providers. Just send them a friendly email to ask if they're ok with Tor exit relays. Explain why it is important, how you will act fast when complaints are raised, and that you can block destinations or destination ports should it become necessary. Add their answer to the wiki. Watch out, cheap VPS usually restrict the number of concurrent open sockets. -- Moritz Bartl https://www.torservers.net/
On Tuesday, August 25, 2015 2:23pm, "Moritz Bartl" <moritz@torservers.net> said:
On 08/25/2015 03:47 PM, Greg wrote: [snip] Watch out, cheap VPS usually restrict the number of concurrent open sockets.
That's only true for OpenVZ containers, which also have a number of other drawbacks, the worst of which is the inability to set accurate system time.
That is the right approach. (Where was this sort of directness when I started!) How about about putting this whole statement on the torproject.org front page? Robert
Don't think any longer about it ;) - - Email me directly any time if you need technical support in setting things up, hardening the server or need a customized setup adapted to certain conditions.
- - Email me directly any time if you have the funds needed to run a Tor exit relay but don't know how to set it up, where to get it from or don't want to rent and run it under your real name.
- - Email me directly any time if you need instructions about how to deal with abuse complaints and short templates for replies.
For live chat come on IRC, OFTC network, #tor channel.
Good day, Excerpts from s7r's message of 2015-08-21 03:23:30 +0300:
I have been running high capacity Exit relays for a very long time, and I tell you it's not a headache and it will not attract any problems if you just take care of the abuse complaints.
Could you estimate the number of abuse complaints you receive, or the amount of time you need to spend responding to them - and how many exits for how long, for context? I'd like to operate an exit node[0], my chief concern being lack of time. The only reason I can operate relays at all is by automating everything I can; I've considered things like writing an autoresponder to a prominent abuse email address which delivers the standard exit-node boilerplate appended with a contact address in case followup is necessary, but I have no idea how effective that would be - any thoughts would be welcome. Thanks, Sharif [0] I prefer not to contribute funds in lieu of operating relays; it's tempting, but operator diversity is important. -- OpenPGP: 6FB7 ED25 BFCF 3E22 72AE 6E8C 47D4 CE7F 6B9F DF57
Well met, This comes back to my suggestion of having people in the community come together that have different strengths to get some more strong exits going. Sharif is primarily concerned about lack of time managing the abuse and such from the exit node, and my primary concern is spending money on what's ultimately a donation to a cause when I could be selfishly spending it on my student loans. If people like Sharif and I got together to jointly run nodes as Owner/Operator, I think we could really expand the community in both infrastructure and people. -12xBTM. On 21.8.15 8:21, Sharif Olorin wrote:
I'd like to operate an exit node[0], my chief concern being lack of time. The only reason I can operate relays at all is by automating everything I can; I've considered things like writing an autoresponder to a prominent abuse email address which delivers the standard exit-node boilerplate appended with a contact address in case followup is necessary, but I have no idea how effective that would be - any thoughts would be welcome.
Thanks, Sharif
[0] I prefer not to contribute funds in lieu of operating relays; it's tempting, but operator diversity is important.
_______________________________________________ tor-relays mailing list tor-relays@lists.torproject.org https://lists.torproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tor-relays
I think the issue is a ease of deployment & abuse issues is limiting deployment #'s. Funds isn't the issue in my eyes. If we could get $10-20/node setup globally, I would easily pony up $200/month and have 10-20 owner/operators running relays. -Ben From: tor-relays [mailto:tor-relays-bounces@lists.torproject.org] On Behalf Of 12xBTM Sent: Friday, August 21, 2015 8:27 AM To: tor-relays@lists.torproject.org Subject: Re: [tor-relays] Calling for more Exit Relays Well met, This comes back to my suggestion of having people in the community come together that have different strengths to get some more strong exits going. Sharif is primarily concerned about lack of time managing the abuse and such from the exit node, and my primary concern is spending money on what's ultimately a donation to a cause when I could be selfishly spending it on my student loans. If people like Sharif and I got together to jointly run nodes as Owner/Operator, I think we could really expand the community in both infrastructure and people. -12xBTM. On 21.8.15 8:21, Sharif Olorin wrote: I'd like to operate an exit node[0], my chief concern being lack of time. The only reason I can operate relays at all is by automating everything I can; I've considered things like writing an autoresponder to a prominent abuse email address which delivers the standard exit-node boilerplate appended with a contact address in case followup is necessary, but I have no idea how effective that would be - any thoughts would be welcome. Thanks, Sharif [0] I prefer not to contribute funds in lieu of operating relays; it's tempting, but operator diversity is important. _______________________________________________ tor-relays mailing list tor-relays@lists.torproject.org<mailto:tor-relays@lists.torproject.org> https://lists.torproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tor-relays
On Fri, 21 Aug 2015 09:11:30 -0400, Ben Serebin <ben@reefsolutions.com> wrote:
Funds isn't the issue in my eyes.
Thanks for this. This is more what I'm looking for (like that's they're a non-profit). I'll reach out to them, but I have concerns from my 2 min of research. -Ben -----Original Message----- From: tor-relays [mailto:tor-relays-bounces@lists.torproject.org] On Behalf Of Daniel Jakots Sent: Friday, August 21, 2015 9:23 AM To: tor-relays@lists.torproject.org Subject: Re: [tor-relays] Calling for more Exit Relays On Fri, 21 Aug 2015 09:11:30 -0400, Ben Serebin <ben@reefsolutions.com> wrote:
Funds isn't the issue in my eyes.
Great https://nos-oignons.net/campagne2015/index.en.html :) _______________________________________________ tor-relays mailing list tor-relays@lists.torproject.org https://lists.torproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tor-relays
On 08/21/2015 03:56 PM, Ben Serebin wrote:
Thanks for this. This is more what I'm looking for (like that's they're a non-profit). I'll reach out to them, but I have concerns from my 2 min of research.
Great! There's several many more to choose from: https://www.torservers.net/partners.html -- Moritz Bartl https://www.torservers.net/
Even better. I have more money than time, so this helps. I already reached out to nos oignons as well. -Ben -----Original Message----- From: tor-relays [mailto:tor-relays-bounces@lists.torproject.org] On Behalf Of Moritz Bartl Sent: Friday, August 21, 2015 10:20 AM To: tor-relays@lists.torproject.org Subject: Re: [tor-relays] Calling for more Exit Relays On 08/21/2015 03:56 PM, Ben Serebin wrote:
Thanks for this. This is more what I'm looking for (like that's they're a non-profit). I'll reach out to them, but I have concerns from my 2 min of research.
Great! There's several many more to choose from: https://www.torservers.net/partners.html -- Moritz Bartl https://www.torservers.net/ _______________________________________________ tor-relays mailing list tor-relays@lists.torproject.org https://lists.torproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tor-relays
Heya Ben, It seems like, from my research from Speak Freely's notes and the good/bad isp list, that the $10-$20/mo range usually gets you 100Mbit/s unmetered exit-friendly VPS connections, although I'm interested in trying hosts that advertise better connections for similar prices. I'm very interested in being an operator of such a node, and if you wanted to be the owner, let me know, because I really think we could get a successful node going that utilizes our strengths. If you're interested, just shoot me an email and we can work out the details. -12xBTM On 21.8.15 9:11, Ben Serebin wrote:
I think the issue is a ease of deployment & abuse issues is limiting deployment #’s. Funds isn’t the issue in my eyes. If we could get $10-20/node setup globally, I would easily pony up $200/month and have 10-20 owner/operators running relays.
-Ben
*From:*tor-relays [mailto:tor-relays-bounces@lists.torproject.org] *On Behalf Of *12xBTM *Sent:* Friday, August 21, 2015 8:27 AM *To:* tor-relays@lists.torproject.org *Subject:* Re: [tor-relays] Calling for more Exit Relays
Well met,
This comes back to my suggestion of having people in the community come together that have different strengths to get some more strong exits going. Sharif is primarily concerned about lack of time managing the abuse and such from the exit node, and my primary concern is spending money on what's ultimately a donation to a cause when I could be selfishly spending it on my student loans.
If people like Sharif and I got together to jointly run nodes as Owner/Operator, I think we could really expand the community in both infrastructure and people.
-12xBTM.
On 21.8.15 8:21, Sharif Olorin wrote:
I'd like to operate an exit node[0],
my chief concern being lack of time. The only reason I can operate
relays at all is by automating everything I can; I've considered things
like writing an autoresponder to a prominent abuse email address which
delivers the standard exit-node boilerplate appended with a contact
address in case followup is necessary, but I have no idea how
effective that would be - any thoughts would be welcome.
Thanks,
Sharif
[0] I prefer not to contribute funds in lieu of operating relays; it's
tempting, but operator diversity is important.
_______________________________________________
tor-relays mailing list
tor-relays@lists.torproject.org <mailto:tor-relays@lists.torproject.org>
https://lists.torproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tor-relays
_______________________________________________ tor-relays mailing list tor-relays@lists.torproject.org https://lists.torproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tor-relays
++ 21/08/15 12:21 +0000 - Sharif Olorin:
Could you estimate the number of abuse complaints you receive, or the amount of time you need to spend responding to them - and how many exits for how long, for context? I'd like to operate an exit node[0],
With the experience of running a couple of exit relays, some of them high-bandwidth, all of them running the reduced exit-policy: just a few complaints worth responding to every month for every node. Most of the complaints are automated and replying doesn't do anything. I have a default answer that I send to non-automated complaints and hardly ever there is a follow-up to that. Rarely I see a request from a LEA, which always get more or less the same answer (a denial + explanation). In other words, it doesn't take too much time (provided you run your relay with reduced exit policy - or stricter). -- Rejo Zenger E rejo@zenger.nl | P +31(0)639642738 | W https://rejo.zenger.nl T @rejozenger | J rejo@zenger.nl OpenPGP 1FBF 7B37 6537 68B1 2532 A4CB 0994 0946 21DB EFD4 XMPP OTR 271A 9186 AFBC 8124 18CF 4BE2 E000 E708 F811 5ACF Signal 0507 A41B F4D6 5DB4 937D E8A1 29B6 AAA6 524F B68B 93D4 4C6E 8BAB 7C9E 17C9 FB28 03
hi, what do you think about high restricted exits? i thought about solely accept some single ips. like so accept:* berlin.ftp.media.ccc.de: 195.54.164.50 2001:67c:20a0:5:0:0:0:cccc eff.org 69.50.225.155 2607:f258:102:3:0:0:0:2 disconnect.me 54.221.221.253 107.21.253.239 50.19.226.59 startpage.com 212.121.101.8 89.146.4.146 145.131.132.79 tails.boum.org 204.13.164.188 torproject.org 2001:41b8:202:deb:213:21ff:fe20:1426 2620:0:6b0:b:1a1a:0:26e5:4810 2001:858:2:2:aabb:0:563b:1e28 38.229.72.16 82.195.75.101 86.59.30.40 93.95.227.222 154.35.132.70 reject *.* isnt it a bad idea? will i be flagged as bad exit by reducing exit like so^? wouldnt it take some load from the network while excude all complains cause this are tor-friendly ips? thanks meanwhile Am Freitag, 21. August 2015 02:23 schrieb s7r <s7r@sky-ip.org>:
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA256
Hello,
In the last 48 hours we went under the 'psychological' threshold of 1000 Exit Relays in the consensus. Right now, Thu Aug 20 23:57:02 UTC 2015, we have:
6234 Running relays 954 Exit relays
I think we can improve this balance. Let's do it!
This is a call for everyone: Please run Exit relays, or if you are running a middle relay turn it into an Exit relay!
I have been running high capacity Exit relays for a very long time, and I tell you it's not a headache and it will not attract any problems if you just take care of the abuse complaints.
During this very long time, 98% of the abuse complaints were automated messages which can safely be ignored (fail2ban notifications, portscans, web CMS plugins sending reports about http fetches, etc.) and the rest were from very nice people who didn't know what Tor is and how it works, but after explaining to them they actually liked the idea - gives you a really nice feeling. Only 2 times I have received email from law enforcement agents (which are just normal people like us, doing a hard job) - a complete and clear explanation was all that it took for them to fully understand and eliminate any doubt that the server in question is somehow interesting to them.
Tor is _legal_ in all sane countries! We as a community are here and I give you my word that me and others will personally assist, in the measure and ways we can, whoever runs into troubles because of running an exit, which is highly unlikely.
It is recommended to reject in your policy port 25 (it's not needed and it will blacklist you for spam messages if you leave it open). Allow all other ports, or use the reduced exit policy from torproject.org if you want to allow only what is highly necessary.
Don't think any longer about it ;) - - Email me directly any time if you need technical support in setting things up, hardening the server or need a customized setup adapted to certain conditions.
- - Email me directly any time if you have the funds needed to run a Tor exit relay but don't know how to set it up, where to get it from or don't want to rent and run it under your real name.
- - Email me directly any time if you need instructions about how to deal with abuse complaints and short templates for replies.
For live chat come on IRC, OFTC network, #tor channel. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (MingW32)
iQEcBAEBCAAGBQJV1m+CAAoJEIN/pSyBJlsRhD8H/3NpZniYVIELenCvxKNKIEeR J6hvSIwsAJUzlk+Hm5v74f7uzeXoLwA8z/FtzKCBVACOvUoCo1b4/2hF3wBMDfcw CsSZC0AkkIdF+4ePSIsjAU8giOr2uXkCS9CSoRyDnIebmyx5RkSnFDXgTg6/QLJT YJBuTrAA2anxqCHmqL9xHEDM40JhTMP6N6CR3aR4CCPkVOeELyyLTSgb637rZzUs EuRkliktZifirhENxOHzvMVv4D4X60lXeSo1i347gdPwTGuNpiL5fPu+ET0E1sTh Ol8Prvi6XP9yBojW7Up0q1y6083JkguLTbxQDomnqEYT7LCCqAFVBwdc1xWUdg0= =kFIY -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- _______________________________________________ tor-relays mailing list tor-relays@lists.torproject.org https://lists.torproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tor-relays
On 3 Sep 2015, at 14:55, tor-server-creator@use.startmail.com wrote:
hi, what do you think about high restricted exits? i thought about solely accept some single ips.
In order to be assigned the Exit flag, a relay needs to exit to at least a IPv4 /8 netblock, on at least two ports from 80, 443, and 6667. Clients are also unlikely to use your relay as an Exit unless it has the Exit flag. (Clients preemptively build circuits to general-purpose exits, and use those circuits when they need to make an Exit connection.)
like so accept:*
berlin.ftp.media.ccc.de: 195.54.164.50 2001:67c:20a0:5:0:0:0:cccc
eff.org 69.50.225.155 2607:f258:102:3:0:0:0:2
disconnect.me 54.221.221.253 107.21.253.239 50.19.226.59
startpage.com 212.121.101.8 89.146.4.146 145.131.132.79
tails.boum.org 204.13.164.188
torproject.org 2001:41b8:202:deb:213:21ff:fe20:1426 2620:0:6b0:b:1a1a:0:26e5:4810 2001:858:2:2:aabb:0:563b:1e28 38.229.72.16 82.195.75.101 86.59.30.40 93.95.227.222 154.35.132.70 reject *.*
isnt it a bad idea? will i be flagged as bad exit by reducing exit like so^? wouldnt it take some load from the network while excude all complains cause this are tor-friendly ips?
thanks meanwhile
Am Freitag, 21. August 2015 02:23 schrieb s7r <s7r@sky-ip.org>:
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA256 Hello, In the last 48 hours we went under the 'psychological' threshold of 1000 Exit Relays in the consensus. Right now, Thu Aug 20 23:57:02 UTC 2015, we have: 6234 Running relays 954 Exit relays I think we can improve this balance. Let's do it! This is a call for everyone: Please run Exit relays, or if you are running a middle relay turn it into an Exit relay! I have been running high capacity Exit relays for a very long time, and I tell you it's not a headache and it will not attract any problems if you just take care of the abuse complaints. During this very long time, 98% of the abuse complaints were automated messages which can safely be ignored (fail2ban notifications, portscans, web CMS plugins sending reports about http fetches, etc.) and the rest were from very nice people who didn't know what Tor is and how it works, but after explaining to them they actually liked the idea - gives you a really nice feeling. Only 2 times I have received email from law enforcement agents (which are just normal people like us, doing a hard job) - a complete and clear explanation was all that it took for them to fully understand and eliminate any doubt that the server in question is somehow interesting to them. Tor is _legal_ in all sane countries! We as a community are here and I give you my word that me and others will personally assist, in the measure and ways we can, whoever runs into troubles because of running an exit, which is highly unlikely. It is recommended to reject in your policy port 25 (it's not needed and it will blacklist you for spam messages if you leave it open). Allow all other ports, or use the reduced exit policy from torproject.org if you want to allow only what is highly necessary. Don't think any longer about it ;) - - Email me directly any time if you need technical support in setting things up, hardening the server or need a customized setup adapted to certain conditions. - - Email me directly any time if you have the funds needed to run a Tor exit relay but don't know how to set it up, where to get it from or don't want to rent and run it under your real name. - - Email me directly any time if you need instructions about how to deal with abuse complaints and short templates for replies. For live chat come on IRC, OFTC network, #tor channel. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (MingW32) iQEcBAEBCAAGBQJV1m+CAAoJEIN/pSyBJlsRhD8H/3NpZniYVIELenCvxKNKIEeR J6hvSIwsAJUzlk+Hm5v74f7uzeXoLwA8z/FtzKCBVACOvUoCo1b4/2hF3wBMDfcw CsSZC0AkkIdF+4ePSIsjAU8giOr2uXkCS9CSoRyDnIebmyx5RkSnFDXgTg6/QLJT YJBuTrAA2anxqCHmqL9xHEDM40JhTMP6N6CR3aR4CCPkVOeELyyLTSgb637rZzUs EuRkliktZifirhENxOHzvMVv4D4X60lXeSo1i347gdPwTGuNpiL5fPu+ET0E1sTh Ol8Prvi6XP9yBojW7Up0q1y6083JkguLTbxQDomnqEYT7LCCqAFVBwdc1xWUdg0= =kFIY -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- _______________________________________________ tor-relays mailing list tor-relays@lists.torproject.org https://lists.torproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tor-relays
tor-relays mailing list tor-relays@lists.torproject.org https://lists.torproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tor-relays
Tim Wilson-Brown (teor) teor2345 at gmail dot com PGP: 968F094B (ABFED1AC & A39A9058 expire 15 Sep 2015) teor at blah dot im OTR CAD08081 9755866D 89E2A06F E3558B7F B5A9D14F (From 1 Sep 2015)
may relays could hard- implement some common exitting ips like those from torproject and tails? to take some exit-load from the network. for example activate exitting by gaining guard to some trustet ips or implement an torrc-option commonexit 0/1 Am Donnerstag, 3. September 2015 07:09 schrieb Tim Wilson-Brown - teor <teor2345@gmail.com>:
On 3 Sep 2015, at 14:55, tor-server-creator@use.startmail.com wrote: hi, what do you think about high restricted exits? i thought about solely accept some single ips. In order to be assigned the Exit flag, a relay needs to exit to at least a IPv4 /8 netblock, on at least two ports from 80, 443, and
6667. Clients are also unlikely to use your relay as an Exit unless it has the Exit flag. (Clients preemptively build circuits to general-purpose exits, and use those circuits when they need to make an Exit connection.)
like so accept:*
berlin.ftp.media.ccc.de <http://berlin.ftp.media.ccc.de>: 195.54.164.50 2001:67c:20a0:5:0:0:0:cccc
eff.org <http://eff.org> 69.50.225.155 2607:f258:102:3:0:0:0:2
disconnect.me <http://disconnect.me> 54.221.221.253 107.21.253.239 50.19.226.59
startpage.com <http://startpage.com> 212.121.101.8 89.146.4.146 145.131.132.79
tails.boum.org <http://tails.boum.org> 204.13.164.188
torproject.org <http://torproject.org> 2001:41b8:202:deb:213:21ff:fe20:1426 2620:0:6b0:b:1a1a:0:26e5:4810 2001:858:2:2:aabb:0:563b:1e28 38.229.72.16 82.195.75.101 86.59.30.40 93.95.227.222 154.35.132.70 reject *.*
isnt it a bad idea? will i be flagged as bad exit by reducing exit like so^? wouldnt it take some load from the network while excude all complains cause this are tor-friendly ips?
thanks meanwhile
Am Freitag, 21. August 2015 02:23 schrieb s7r <s7r@sky-ip.org>:
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA256 Hello, In the last 48 hours we went under the 'psychological' threshold of 1000 Exit Relays in the consensus. Right now, Thu Aug 20 23:57:02 UTC 2015, we have: 6234 Running relays 954 Exit relays I think we can improve this balance. Let's do it! This is a call for everyone: Please run Exit relays, or if you are running a middle relay turn it into an Exit relay! I have been running high capacity Exit relays for a very long time, and I tell you it's not a headache and it will not attract any problems if you just take care of the abuse complaints. During this very long time, 98% of the abuse complaints were automated messages which can safely be ignored (fail2ban notifications, portscans, web CMS plugins sending reports about http fetches, etc.) and the rest were from very nice people who didn't know what Tor is and how it works, but after explaining to them they actually liked the idea - gives you a really nice feeling. Only 2 times I have received email from law enforcement agents (which are just normal people like us, doing a hard job) - a complete and clear explanation was all that it took for them to fully understand and eliminate any doubt that the server in question is somehow interesting to them. Tor is _legal_ in all sane countries! We as a community are here and I give you my word that me and others will personally assist, in the measure and ways we can, whoever runs into troubles because of running an exit, which is highly unlikely. It is recommended to reject in your policy port 25 (it's not needed and it will blacklist you for spam messages if you leave it open). Allow all other ports, or use the reduced exit policy from torproject.org <http://torproject.org> if you want to allow only what is highly necessary. Don't think any longer about it ;) - - Email me directly any time if you need technical support in setting things up, hardening the server or need a customized setup adapted to certain conditions. - - Email me directly any time if you have the funds needed to run a Tor exit relay but don't know how to set it up, where to get it from or don't want to rent and run it under your real name. - - Email me directly any time if you need instructions about how to deal with abuse complaints and short templates for replies. For live chat come on IRC, OFTC network, #tor channel. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (MingW32) iQEcBAEBCAAGBQJV1m+CAAoJEIN/pSyBJlsRhD8H/3NpZniYVIELenCvxKNKIEeR J6hvSIwsAJUzlk+Hm5v74f7uzeXoLwA8z/FtzKCBVACOvUoCo1b4/2hF3wBMDfcw CsSZC0AkkIdF+4ePSIsjAU8giOr2uXkCS9CSoRyDnIebmyx5RkSnFDXgTg6/QLJT YJBuTrAA2anxqCHmqL9xHEDM40JhTMP6N6CR3aR4CCPkVOeELyyLTSgb637rZzUs EuRkliktZifirhENxOHzvMVv4D4X60lXeSo1i347gdPwTGuNpiL5fPu+ET0E1sTh Ol8Prvi6XP9yBojW7Up0q1y6083JkguLTbxQDomnqEYT7LCCqAFVBwdc1xWUdg0= =kFIY -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- _______________________________________________ tor-relays mailing list tor-relays@lists.torproject.org https://lists.torproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tor-relays
tor-relays mailing list tor-relays@lists.torproject.org https://lists.torproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tor-relays Tim Wilson-Brown (teor) teor2345 at gmail dot com PGP: 968F094B (ABFED1AC & A39A9058 expire 15 Sep 2015)
teor at blah dot im OTR CAD08081 9755866D 89E2A06F E3558B7F B5A9D14F (From 1 Sep 2015)
On 4 Sep 2015, at 02:29, tor-server-creator@use.startmail.com wrote:
may relays could hard- implement some common exitting ips like those from torproject and tails? to take some exit-load from the network. for example activate exitting by gaining guard to some trustet ips or implement an torrc-option commonexit 0/1
I’m not sure that relays with an ExitPolicy containing only a few IPs will work like you want in the current Tor network. These relays won’t get the Exit flag, and therefore clients won’t use them much, if at all. Tim (teor)
Am Donnerstag, 3. September 2015 07:09 schrieb Tim Wilson-Brown - teor <teor2345@gmail.com>:
On 3 Sep 2015, at 14:55, tor-server-creator@use.startmail.com wrote:
hi, what do you think about high restricted exits? i thought about solely accept some single ips.
In order to be assigned the Exit flag, a relay needs to exit to at least a IPv4 /8 netblock, on at least two ports from 80, 443, and 6667.
Clients are also unlikely to use your relay as an Exit unless it has the Exit flag. (Clients preemptively build circuits to general-purpose exits, and use those circuits when they need to make an Exit connection.)
like so accept:* berlin.ftp.media.ccc.de <http://berlin.ftp.media.ccc.de>: 195.54.164.50 2001:67c:20a0:5:0:0:0:cccc eff.org <http://eff.org> 69.50.225.155 2607:f258:102:3:0:0:0:2 disconnect.me <http://disconnect.me> 54.221.221.253 107.21.253.239 50.19.226.59 startpage.com <http://startpage.com> 212.121.101.8 89.146.4.146 145.131.132.79 tails.boum.org <http://tails.boum.org> 204.13.164.188 torproject.org <http://torproject.org> 2001:41b8:202:deb:213:21ff:fe20:1426 2620:0:6b0:b:1a1a:0:26e5:4810 2001:858:2:2:aabb:0:563b:1e28 38.229.72.16 82.195.75.101 86.59.30.40 93.95.227.222 154.35.132.70 reject *.* isnt it a bad idea? will i be flagged as bad exit by reducing exit like so^? wouldnt it take some load from the network while excude all complains cause this are tor-friendly ips? thanks meanwhile
Am Freitag, 21. August 2015 02:23 schrieb s7r <s7r@sky-ip.org>:
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA256 Hello, In the last 48 hours we went under the 'psychological' threshold of 1000 Exit Relays in the consensus. Right now, Thu Aug 20 23:57:02 UTC 2015, we have: 6234 Running relays 954 Exit relays I think we can improve this balance. Let's do it! This is a call for everyone: Please run Exit relays, or if you are running a middle relay turn it into an Exit relay! I have been running high capacity Exit relays for a very long time, and I tell you it's not a headache and it will not attract any problems if you just take care of the abuse complaints. During this very long time, 98% of the abuse complaints were automated messages which can safely be ignored (fail2ban notifications, portscans, web CMS plugins sending reports about http fetches, etc.) and the rest were from very nice people who didn't know what Tor is and how it works, but after explaining to them they actually liked the idea - gives you a really nice feeling. Only 2 times I have received email from law enforcement agents (which are just normal people like us, doing a hard job) - a complete and clear explanation was all that it took for them to fully understand and eliminate any doubt that the server in question is somehow interesting to them. Tor is _legal_ in all sane countries! We as a community are here and I give you my word that me and others will personally assist, in the measure and ways we can, whoever runs into troubles because of running an exit, which is highly unlikely. It is recommended to reject in your policy port 25 (it's not needed and it will blacklist you for spam messages if you leave it open). Allow all other ports, or use the reduced exit policy from torproject.org <http://torproject.org> if you want to allow only what is highly necessary. Don't think any longer about it ;) - - Email me directly any time if you need technical support in setting things up, hardening the server or need a customized setup adapted to certain conditions. - - Email me directly any time if you have the funds needed to run a Tor exit relay but don't know how to set it up, where to get it from or don't want to rent and run it under your real name. - - Email me directly any time if you need instructions about how to deal with abuse complaints and short templates for replies. For live chat come on IRC, OFTC network, #tor channel. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (MingW32) iQEcBAEBCAAGBQJV1m+CAAoJEIN/pSyBJlsRhD8H/3NpZniYVIELenCvxKNKIEeR J6hvSIwsAJUzlk+Hm5v74f7uzeXoLwA8z/FtzKCBVACOvUoCo1b4/2hF3wBMDfcw CsSZC0AkkIdF+4ePSIsjAU8giOr2uXkCS9CSoRyDnIebmyx5RkSnFDXgTg6/QLJT YJBuTrAA2anxqCHmqL9xHEDM40JhTMP6N6CR3aR4CCPkVOeELyyLTSgb637rZzUs EuRkliktZifirhENxOHzvMVv4D4X60lXeSo1i347gdPwTGuNpiL5fPu+ET0E1sTh Ol8Prvi6XP9yBojW7Up0q1y6083JkguLTbxQDomnqEYT7LCCqAFVBwdc1xWUdg0= =kFIY -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- _______________________________________________ tor-relays mailing list tor-relays@lists.torproject.org https://lists.torproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tor-relays
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Tim Wilson-Brown (teor)
teor2345 at gmail dot com PGP: 968F094B (ABFED1AC & A39A9058 expire 15 Sep 2015) teor at blah dot im OTR CAD08081 9755866D 89E2A06F E3558B7F B5A9D14F (From 1 Sep 2015)
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participants (16)
-
12xBTM -
Ben Serebin -
Daniel Jakots -
Greg -
I -
Manas Bhatnagar -
Moritz Bartl -
nobody -
NOC -
Rejo Zenger -
s7r -
Sharif Olorin -
Steve Snyder -
teor -
Tim Wilson-Brown - teor
-
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