[tor-dev] [Tor2web] Proposal for improving social incentives for relay operators
i at virgil.gr
Tue Jun 10 20:42:54 UTC 2014
* I agree 100% with your Dec 2013 post.
* All data I seek to make available in "Torati" is available from
The proposal is to interface to Torati is like ATLAS but keyed by Tor
* However, where Atlas intends primarily to be a reference, Torati aims
to be social reputation
incentivization for operators. So you'd want Torati to be seen by
search engines using the user's
* A given nickname's contributions would be the sum across the relays
with that nickname.
Which in for "TORTverLover" would sum the stats across:
To answer your questions:
> (The last link is a 404.)
But the most important papers are the first two I linked.
> Why not make it entirely opt-in? We could include a subscription
link in Weather's welcome messages that relay operators receive when
their relay first receives the Stable flag.
I greatly prefer opt-out over opt-in. Even if a Torati operator is in
fact reputation-hungry, I don't want
the opt-in mechanic to encourage him/her to be seen as reputation
hungry. Moreover, as ATLAS isn't
opt-in so I see no reason to deviate from that precedent as this is
really just a "reverse-lookup" version
> Where does the name "Torati" originate from?
The name "Torati" is a Tor-ified version of "digerati" or
"illuminati". It's meant to convey something
along the lines of "Tor Ninja". It's a positive term that one is
proud to call oneself. The name was
chosen as a component of the reputation social incentive.
On Tue, Jun 10, 2014 at 1:19 AM, Karsten Loesing <karsten at torproject.org>
> [Attempting to move this discussion to tor-dev@ to avoid cross-posting;
> assuming my Reply-To: header won't get eaten by Mailman..]
> On 10/06/14 02:26, Virgil Griffith wrote:
> > For a while I've been seeking to grow the Tor network in both size and
> > goodput. Towards this end, I've explored various avenues such as
> > increasing user-awareness via tor2web. More recently, I've been
> > financial incentives like TorCoin.
> > Not wanting to strictly limit ourselves to financial incentives, I began
> > reading the literature on incentivizing volunteers. The most relevant
> > papers I found are:
> > *
> > * http://pareto.uab.es/~prey/gneezy_254.pdf
> > * https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/3308162/Slonim%202013.pdf
> (The last link is a 404.)
> > The most relevant of these papers (Lacetera 2013) cites the major
> > motivations for volunteer labor are: "pure altruism, warm glow,
> > and reputation". Upon reading this I realized TorCoin's technical
> > interestingness had blinded me to much easier to leverage motivations of
> > "warm glow" and "reputation".
> > I propose the following system for harnessing "warm glow" and
> > for Tor relay operators. I am willing to fund this in its entirety.
> > I propose establishing a subdomain on torproject.org giving each Tor
> > operator (hereafter affectionately called "Torati") his/her own page
> > the information her machines provide to the Tor Directory Consensus. The
> > fields to show on her "Torati profile page" would be things like:
> > ContactInfo, PGP fingerprint, list of server nicknames, date the
> > Authorities first saw her contact info, etc. You can also imagine a
> > receiving special "special recognition stars" for operating an exit or
> > bridge node. Moreover, some bandwidth measurement like EigenSpeed or
> > TorCoin gain traction, the Torati page could recognize contributors with
> > listing the sum total she has relayed to the Tor network.
> > Naturally a node can opt-out of Torati recognition by setting a parameter
> > in the torrc file.
> > I argue this would be a cheap and easy way to motivate operators to
> > volunteer more bandwidth for the Tor network. As mentioned before, I am
> > willing to fund this in its entirety.
> Hi Virgil,
> adding more/better incentives for people to run relays and bridges
> sounds like a great plan!
> What you describe sounds related to what I suggested last December on
> this list:
> > 9. Provide relay comparison metrics in Onionoo. We could define some
> > simple metrics on the usefulness of a relay, like provided bandwidth or
> > uptime, in comparison to other relays. A possible statement from these
> > metrics could be: "your relay provides more bandwidth than 95% of relays
> > in the network." Similar to 8. If Atlas  or Globe  or a
> > yet-to-be-written Facebook application or a also-yet-to-be-written
> > Twitter integration into Tor Weather (#10372) tell the world how
> > successful someone's running Tor relays, maybe that encourages others to
> > run relays, too. We could even invent a points system for running
> > relays, with additional points for running exits, if that makes the Tor
> > network better. Probably needs input from a community coordinator
> > person. (Orange part in the diagram.)
> >  https://atlas.torproject.org/
> >  https://globe.torproject.org/
> Want to take a look at Onionoo and see whether it already provides the
> information and functionality you need, and if not, open tickets for the
> missing pieces?
> But let me also give you some quick feedback on your proposal:
> - Why not make it entirely opt-in? We could include a subscription
> link in Weather's welcome messages that relay operators receive when
> their relay first receives the Stable flag.
> - Where does the name "Torati" originate from?
> All the best,
> Tor2web-talk mailing list
> Tor2web-talk at lists.tor2web.org
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