Re: [tor-relays] BBC and UK Lottery blocking ip addresses running Tor
Looks like the BBC have changed their rules. I am still running a relay, but can now access www.bbc.co.uk in a normal fashion. Still blocked by national lottery, but I'm hopeful that they both use the same third party ip checker, and that the next lottery update will fix the issue. On Thu, Sep 18, 2014 at 10:41 PM, <tor-relays-request@lists.torproject.org> wrote:
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Today's Topics:
1. RELAY_EARLY tor network update status (CVE-2014-5117) (Nusenu) 2. Re: BBC and UK Lottery blocking ip addresses running relay (Ross Petrie) 3. Re: BBC and UK Lottery blocking ip addresses running relay (Chris Whittleston)
---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Nusenu <BM-2D8wMEVgGVY76je1WXNPfo8SrpZt5yGHES@bitmessage.ch> To: tor-relays@lists.torproject.org Cc: markus@mdfnet.se, info@enn.lu, torpids@yahoo.com, nick@calyx.com Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2014 21:00:41 +0000 Subject: [tor-relays] RELAY_EARLY tor network update status (CVE-2014-5117) (if you are on the CC list of this email you are probably one of the tor relay operators running one of the 10 fastest vulnerable [CVE-2014-5117] relays on the tor network. Please upgrade your tor relay)
The tor network is currently at 64% of the bandwidth being served by relays running a recommended version according to torstatus.blutmagie.de . I updated a previous metrics feature request so we might see nice graphs about patching progress in the future [2].
Since we are seeing active RELAY_EARLY attacks again (or new buggy tor implemantations) I was wondering what the current update stats look like.
~85%* of the tor network's bandwidth is provided by patched relays. (~66% 0.2.4.23, ~11% 0.2.5.6-alpha, ~7% 0.2.5.7-rc)
*) according to data from torstatus.blutmagie.de
10 fastest relays still running a vulnerable version:
https://atlas.torproject.org/#details/EC98311F9EC02BEAA183651CE8402249CD036D...
https://atlas.torproject.org/#details/D1271A1E15C568DA709D3A1E68188EEAE8DDB8...
https://atlas.torproject.org/#details/12AD30E5D25AA67F519780E2111E611A455FDC...
https://atlas.torproject.org/#details/1B9FACF25E17D26E307EA7CFA7D455B144B032...
https://atlas.torproject.org/#details/2F57987F3942BA0BBD706D623F1FF86A896842...
https://atlas.torproject.org/#details/379FB450010D17078B3766C2273303C358C3A4...
https://atlas.torproject.org/#details/935BABE2564F82016C19AEF63C0C40B5753BA3...
https://atlas.torproject.org/#details/B83DC1558F0D34353BB992EF93AFEAFDB226A7...
https://atlas.torproject.org/#details/104A9453FD93BDBEAE9E2024898266AD2051A1...
https://atlas.torproject.org/#details/C11650E31F83E149C855D574B3171CC9CF9BEE...
---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Ross Petrie <ross.petrie@gmail.com> To: tor-relays@lists.torproject.org Cc: Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2014 22:18:05 +0100 Subject: Re: [tor-relays] BBC and UK Lottery blocking ip addresses running relay
Hi all,
I've just reported this same issue this week, no reply yet.
I can still watch catch up BBC TV through my sky box though. On 18 Sep 2014 21:40, "Dan Hanley" <hanley.dan@gmail.com> wrote:
I have just received a slightly more positive reply:
"At present, our GeoIP data provider classes Tor nodes as proxies, regardless of whether or not they're an exit node. We understand that there is room for improvement in this model, since non-exit relays do not present traffic on behalf of other users. We have asked our provider to give us a way of differentiating Tor exit nodes from non-exit relays, to allow us to block exit nodes only."
So perhaps they will make a change... certainly reporting the issue seems to raise its importance :-)
atb
Dan
5. Re: BBC and UK Lottery blocking ip addresses running relay
nodes (Chris Whittleston) ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Chris Whittleston <csw34@cam.ac.uk> To: tor-relays@lists.torproject.org Cc: Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2014 01:40:31 +0100 Subject: Re: [tor-relays] BBC and UK Lottery blocking ip addresses running relay nodes Yeah ouch - maybe I just got someone a bit more helpful. I'm with Matt though, it seems like they still don't get the difference between using Tor as a client and running a relay, so this isn't the end of the road there. You are going to have to rely on them wanting to actually think about it though.
If all else fails, you could always try to simply report the issue again using the form I linked before, but this time just don't mention Tor at all and see if you get a different customer service person...
http://iplayerhelp.external.bbc.co.uk/tv/incorrect_location_may2014
I suspect you'll end up having to explain that you're running a relay in the end anyway, but you never know.
Chris
On 17 September 2014 21:48, Matt Puckey <matt@puckey.org> wrote:
Stephen Mollett:
[...] "Thank you for contacting the BBC iPlayer support team.
"I understand you’re experiencing problems accessing BBC iPlayer as you’re told that you are outside of the UK.
"Please note that if you run TOR, then I’m afraid as per our development team’s confirmation you’ll not be able to access BBC iPlayer. If you continue to use TOR then your IP address may be blacklisted against UK only services across bbc.co.uk."
I made a point of stating explicitly in my original case filing that I run a middle relay and that no traffic exits from my node to the BBC's website or to anywhere else, along with a link to my node's stats on blutmagie confirming the (non-)exit policy. [...]
Hi Stephen,
I'm not sure whether I'm surprised at the BBC or not!
It is a shame if they seem to be doing blanket blocking of Tor relay IP addresses. I suppose this ( https://blog.torproject.org/blog/call-arms-helping-internet-services-accept-... ) has /some/ relevance.
The problem is obviously convincing a organisation like the BBC to treat individual IP addresses different from other Tor relay IP addresses (and whether they should be doing that at all). Although it seems Chris Whittleston obviously managed it! Maybe you simply got 'the wrong person at the other end'. Personally, I would continue to pursue this with them!
--Matt
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-- *Dr Chris Whittleston 栗主* Department of Chemistry University of Cambridge Lensfield Road, Cambridge, CB2 1EW Email: csw34@cam.ac.uk Tel: +44 (0)1223 336423
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---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Chris Whittleston <csw34@cam.ac.uk> To: tor-relays@lists.torproject.org Cc: Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2014 22:41:04 +0100 Subject: Re: [tor-relays] BBC and UK Lottery blocking ip addresses running relay
That's great news Dan, keep us posted!
Chris On 18 Sep 2014 21:40, "Dan Hanley" <hanley.dan@gmail.com> wrote:
I have just received a slightly more positive reply:
"At present, our GeoIP data provider classes Tor nodes as proxies, regardless of whether or not they're an exit node. We understand that there is room for improvement in this model, since non-exit relays do not present traffic on behalf of other users. We have asked our provider to give us a way of differentiating Tor exit nodes from non-exit relays, to allow us to block exit nodes only."
So perhaps they will make a change... certainly reporting the issue seems to raise its importance :-)
atb
Dan
5. Re: BBC and UK Lottery blocking ip addresses running relay
nodes (Chris Whittleston) ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Chris Whittleston <csw34@cam.ac.uk> To: tor-relays@lists.torproject.org Cc: Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2014 01:40:31 +0100 Subject: Re: [tor-relays] BBC and UK Lottery blocking ip addresses running relay nodes Yeah ouch - maybe I just got someone a bit more helpful. I'm with Matt though, it seems like they still don't get the difference between using Tor as a client and running a relay, so this isn't the end of the road there. You are going to have to rely on them wanting to actually think about it though.
If all else fails, you could always try to simply report the issue again using the form I linked before, but this time just don't mention Tor at all and see if you get a different customer service person...
http://iplayerhelp.external.bbc.co.uk/tv/incorrect_location_may2014
I suspect you'll end up having to explain that you're running a relay in the end anyway, but you never know.
Chris
On 17 September 2014 21:48, Matt Puckey <matt@puckey.org> wrote:
Stephen Mollett:
[...] "Thank you for contacting the BBC iPlayer support team.
"I understand you’re experiencing problems accessing BBC iPlayer as you’re told that you are outside of the UK.
"Please note that if you run TOR, then I’m afraid as per our development team’s confirmation you’ll not be able to access BBC iPlayer. If you continue to use TOR then your IP address may be blacklisted against UK only services across bbc.co.uk."
I made a point of stating explicitly in my original case filing that I run a middle relay and that no traffic exits from my node to the BBC's website or to anywhere else, along with a link to my node's stats on blutmagie confirming the (non-)exit policy. [...]
Hi Stephen,
I'm not sure whether I'm surprised at the BBC or not!
It is a shame if they seem to be doing blanket blocking of Tor relay IP addresses. I suppose this ( https://blog.torproject.org/blog/call-arms-helping-internet-services-accept-... ) has /some/ relevance.
The problem is obviously convincing a organisation like the BBC to treat individual IP addresses different from other Tor relay IP addresses (and whether they should be doing that at all). Although it seems Chris Whittleston obviously managed it! Maybe you simply got 'the wrong person at the other end'. Personally, I would continue to pursue this with them!
--Matt
_______________________________________________ tor-relays mailing list tor-relays@lists.torproject.org https://lists.torproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tor-relays
-- *Dr Chris Whittleston 栗主* Department of Chemistry University of Cambridge Lensfield Road, Cambridge, CB2 1EW Email: csw34@cam.ac.uk Tel: +44 (0)1223 336423
_______________________________________________ tor-relays mailing list tor-relays@lists.torproject.org https://lists.torproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tor-relays
_______________________________________________ tor-relays mailing list tor-relays@lists.torproject.org https://lists.torproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tor-relays
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Dan Hanley:
Looks like the BBC have changed their rules. I am still running a relay, but can now access www.bbc.co.uk in a normal fashion.
Still blocked by national lottery, but I'm hopeful that they both use the same third party ip checker, and that the next lottery update will fix the issue.
Progress! I cried a little inside when I read, "We have asked our provider to give us a way of differentiating Tor exit nodes from non-exit relays, to allow us to block exit nodes only." Ugh. Did you have trouble reaching www.bbc.co.uk as well as iPlayer? That would be strange. I haven't seen them block Tor relays & exits simply getting to www.bbc.co.uk. --Matt
Did you have trouble reaching www.bbc.co.uk as well as iPlayer? That would be strange. I haven't seen them block Tor relays & exits simply getting to www.bbc.co.uk.
--Matt
Matt, Going for bbc.co.uk from Australia I was redirected to the Australian version of bbc.com. What does that mean? Has it found cookies left from non-Tor Firefox? Robert
I:
Did you have trouble reaching www.bbc.co.uk as well as iPlayer? That would be strange. I haven't seen them block Tor relays & exits simply getting to www.bbc.co.uk.
--Matt
Matt,
Going for bbc.co.uk from Australia I was redirected to the Australian version of bbc.com.
What does that mean? Has it found cookies left from non-Tor Firefox?
Robert
Hi Robert, Hard to say. Can you reproduce it? You /shouldn't/ be able to reproduce it if you hit New Identity within the TBB Torbutton. --Matt
On 25/10/14 14:37, Dan Hanley wrote:
Looks like the BBC have changed their rules. I am still running a relay, but can now access www.bbc.co.uk <http://www.bbc.co.uk> in a normal fashion. ...
Still no change for me - iPlayer says I'm outside the UK. It's not the end of the world (if I'm desperate, I can use get_iplayer at work and take the files home on a USB stick to watch) but it's certainly inconvenient. Does anyone have any good contacts they can use to help raise awareness within the BBC's tech team? Stephen
participants (4)
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Dan Hanley -
I -
Matt Puckey -
Stephen Mollett