Hello,
The next Tor Relay Operator Meetup will happen on June 24, 2023, at 18.00 UTC.
We're working on the agenda here: https://pad.riseup.net/p/tor-relay-op-meetup-june-keep onionsite: http://kfahv6wfkbezjyg4r6mlhpmieydbebr5vkok5r34ya464gqz6c44bnyd.onion/p/tor-... Feel free to add other topics to the agenda.
WHERE Room link: https://tor.meet.coop/gus-og0-x74-dzn
Registration
No need for a registration or anything else, just use the room-link above. We will open the room 10 minutes before so you can test your mic setup.
Please share with your friends, social media and other mailing lists!
cheers, Gus
Hello,
Just a friendly reminder that the Relay Operator meetup will happen this Saturday, June 24 at 18 UTC.
## Agenda
1. Announcements - Tor Relay Operators meetup @ CCCamp 2023! - More unrestricted snowflake proxies are needed - Relays EOL (0.4.5.x) removal - IPv4 limit proposal
2. Presentation about Webtunnel bridges with Tor Anti-censorship Team
3. Tor Network Health proposals discussion - Meta proposal discussion - contactinfo proposal discussion
4. Q&A
https://pad.riseup.net/p/tor-relay-op-meetup-june-keep
best, Gus
On Tue, May 30, 2023 at 05:36:42AM -0300, gus wrote:
Hello,
The next Tor Relay Operator Meetup will happen on June 24, 2023, at 18.00 UTC.
We're working on the agenda here: https://pad.riseup.net/p/tor-relay-op-meetup-june-keep onionsite: http://kfahv6wfkbezjyg4r6mlhpmieydbebr5vkok5r34ya464gqz6c44bnyd.onion/p/tor-... Feel free to add other topics to the agenda.
WHERE Room link: https://tor.meet.coop/gus-og0-x74-dzn
Registration
No need for a registration or anything else, just use the room-link above. We will open the room 10 minutes before so you can test your mic setup.
Please share with your friends, social media and other mailing lists!
cheers, Gus -- The Tor Project Community Team Lead
On Dienstag, 20. Juni 2023 23:01:23 CEST gus wrote:
Just a friendly reminder that the Relay Operator meetup will happen this Saturday, June 24 at 18 UTC.
## Agenda
- Announcements
- Tor Relay Operators meetup @ CCCamp 2023!
- More unrestricted snowflake proxies are needed
- Relays EOL (0.4.5.x) removal
- IPv4 limit proposal
Presentation about Webtunnel bridges with Tor Anti-censorship Team
Tor Network Health proposals discussion
- Meta proposal discussion
- contactinfo proposal discussion
- Q&A
https://pad.riseup.net/ is down :-( As an alternative, the 'German riseup' systemli could be taken. systemli.org is hosted on its own servers at Community-IX.
https://pad.systemli.org/p/tor-relay-op-meetup-june-keep
On Samstag, 24. Juni 2023 18:03:47 CEST lists@for-privacy.net wrote:
On Dienstag, 20. Juni 2023 23:01:23 CEST gus wrote:
Just a friendly reminder that the Relay Operator meetup will happen this Saturday, June 24 at 18 UTC.
## Agenda
- Announcements
- Tor Relay Operators meetup @ CCCamp 2023!
- More unrestricted snowflake proxies are needed
- Relays EOL (0.4.5.x) removal
- IPv4 limit proposal
Presentation about Webtunnel bridges with Tor Anti-censorship Team
Tor Network Health proposals discussion
- Meta proposal discussion
- contactinfo proposal discussion
- Q&A
https://pad.riseup.net/ is down :-( As an alternative, the 'German riseup' systemli could be taken. systemli.org is hosted on its own servers at Community-IX.
I think gus copied the pad. Thanks. Hidden service link is: http://mjrkrqnlf26etelsi7zpkqc3dzlrzyurvmd3jksmndarzzbugz5xctid.onion/p/tor-...
Hi,
Thanks all for joining the Tor Relay Operator Meetup! You can find the meetup notes below.
The next Tor Relay Operator online meetup is July 29, 2023 @ 18 UTC.
cheers, Gus
## Tor Relay Operator Meetup - 2023-06-24
### Before we start
Tor operators are recommended to read the Tor Code of Conduct and Expectations of Tor Operators.
Tor Code of Conduct: https://gitlab.torproject.org/tpo/community/policies/-/blob/master/code_of_c...
Expectations for Relay Operators: https://gitlab.torproject.org/tpo/community/team/-/wikis/Expectations-for-Re...
### 1. Announcements
1.1. In-person activities
- Tor Relay Operators meetup @ Bornhack (https://bornhack.dk/bornhack-2023/) in August (Denmark). Ping Alex (ahf) for more information. - Tor Relay Operators meetup @ CCCamp 2023. CCCamp (https://events.ccc.de/camp/2023/infos/) is taking place near Berlin, Germany, in August. Ping gus or other tor people if you want to help.
1.2. More unrestricted snowflake proxies are needed
- Context: Snowflake is very popular in Iran and China. See the Tor metrics graphs: - https://metrics.torproject.org/userstats-bridge-combined.html?start=2023-03-... - https://metrics.torproject.org/userstats-bridge-combined.html?start=2023-03-... - But there is an issue: many snowflake proxies (volunteers) are behind "restricted connections," including NAT and packet filtering. 'Unrestricted' snowflake proxies will work with all snowflake clients, even those with the most restrictive symmetric NATs and filtering behaviour. - Current stats: snowflake-ips-nat-restricted 72006 snowflake-ips-nat-unrestricted 2447 <- We need your help to increase this pool! snowflake-ips-nat-unknown 47623 - To understand Snowflake NAT matching behavior, please check out this documentation: https://gitlab.torproject.org/tpo/anti-censorship/pluggable-transports/snowf... - Maybe there should be a guide on how to go from being restricted to unrestricted for standalone snowflake proxy from home and/or from a server with a firewall (i.e. limit the range used by snowflake, and "find how to open a range of port on your router"). - Recommendation: Do not run snowflake proxy on the same IP as a relay/bridge. It's a good call to run it on a machine with public dynamic IP address.
1.3. Relays EOL (0.4.5.x) removal
- Only public relays running 0.4.5.x are affected; bridges are unaffected. - If your relay was blocked because was running tor 0.4.5.x version, please reach out to bad-relays at lists.torproject.org and ask them to unblock your relay. - Issue: https://gitlab.torproject.org/tpo/network-health/team/-/issues/291
1.4. IPv4 limit proposal (bumped limit from 2 to 4, and soon 4 to 8!)
- Proposal: https://gitlab.torproject.org/tpo/core/tor/-/issues/40744 - Currently we're allowing 4 relays per IPv4 address. This new max allowed relays per IP address was analyzed here: https://gitlab.torproject.org/tpo/network-health/analysis/-/issues/51 - We're considering to bump the limit to 8 relays per IPv4 address.
1.5. Tor Forum is now self-hosted by Tor Project
- The Tor Forum migration was completed last week: https://forum.torproject.org/ - tor-talk will be deactivated next week. The mailing list archive will be publicly available. Other mailing lists aren't affected. - The Tor Forum Privacy policy will be updated.
### 2. Presentation about Webtunnel bridges with Tor Anti-censorship Team
Tor Anti-censorship Team is soft-releasing Webtunnel, a new pluggable transport based on HTTP Upgrade (HTTPT). It is designed to hide behind HTTPS servers to resist against active probing attacks and to effectively blend in with Internet traffic. Bridge operators can deploy this new pluggable transport on the same IP/machine if they are already running obsf4. Please don't expect a lot of users at the moment, bceause webtunnel is only available on Tor Browser Alpha.
Slides: https://nc.torproject.net/s/PP98BXDMk8nwtrn
Webtunnel requirements for operators: - A self-hosted HTTPS website - Handle traffic with configurable reverse proxy - Environment to run Tor bridge - (Optional) Container runtime like Docker
You can find instructions on how to deploy webtunnel here: https://gitlab.torproject.org/tpo/anti-censorship/pluggable-transports/webtu...
A Dockerfile is available for use with a Debian container and a package for FreeBSD has been created.
Q: What is the distribution mechanism? A: At the moment webtunnel is being distributed only via "HTTPS" (https://bridges.torproject.org).
Q: Are the regular traffic patterns of webtunnel-transported traffic similar to tor traffic? Are they usually bi-directional No, the traffic looks like HTTPS.
### 3. Tor Network Health proposals discussion
- Meta proposal discussion: https://gitlab.torproject.org/tpo/community/policies/-/issues/2
- contactinfo proposal discussion: https://gitlab.torproject.org/tpo/community/relays/-/issues/71
The contactinfo proposal: we don't need to rush as this is a proposal for Arti relays, which won't happen any time soon (probably is not happening for the next 2 years), but we should start scoping which fields the community want.
### 4. Next Tor Relay Operator Meetup
- Date: July 29, 2023 at 18:00 UTC.
### 5. Q&A
Q: I am conducting a survey to understand the attitudes of relay operators towards current relay updates and a new automatic update design. How should I approach contacting relay operators? I apologize for any potential lack of knowledge in this area, as I am new to this field and seeking guidance on the best practices for engaging with relay operators. A: Please contact gus and geko by email, so they can evaluate your request.
Q: Will the obfs fork affect the future development of obfs/its fork? A: We plan to continue the development of obfs4 in lyrebird, but there is probably not going to happen much in any near future. Bridge operators don't need to migrate to lyrebird yet, is great if they do, but we haven't packaged it to debian or any distro, neither use it yet in our docker images. For now the changes in our fork only affect meek. tl;dr: bridge operators don't need to do anything yet, just keep an eye for it.
Q: Any plans, ETA, or budget estimation for running relays using Arti? A: No, not yet. We don't have any funded project to develop Arti relays and this process will take time (it's not part of 2023/2024 roadmap). Relay Operators will be involved when the time comes.
Q: Are unrestricted snowflake proxies currently more needed than obfs4 bridges? A: Depends on the type/location of user you are wanting to help most. Bridges/Relays are best for static IPs, snowflake for dynamic addresses. E.g. Snowflake is used more than obfs4 in China, obfs4 more than Snowflake in Russia.
Q: When should someone run a snowflake proxy instead of a bridge or relay? A: Snowflake proxies tend to use less bandwidth than a relay/bridge. Snowflakes work with dynamic IPs eg at home.
Q: ipv4 limit relaxation - is that due to carrier-grade NAT being used more and more? A: Not really. It's more that servers got more powerful over time and IPv4 addresses more expensive. Thus, the cost for relay operators running more relays got higher while resources got wasted, which is hurting good operators. We try to accommodate that with allowing more relays per IP address while keeping the network monitored so that sybil attacks are not a danger and get dealt with quickly.
Q: What is the status regarding ddos? A: The main ddos seems to be stopped, but some exit operators are having issue with their DNS resolver.
Q: How meaningful is it at all to run an obfs4 bridge on the network of a big hoster like Hetzner (regarding situations like in Turkmenistan, as mentioned in one of the last meetings - possibly those countries block whole IP ranges from such hosters)? A: It's very meaningful to use big hosters as blocks can cause a lot of collateral damage. You shouldn't really need to find an obscure hoster. For Turkmenistan, bridges running on obfs4 port 80, 443 or 8080 and residential connections seems to work!
Q: Is there a plan to have IPv6 only Relay (way cheaper)? A: Not really because relays must be reachable by the rest of the Tor network.
Q: What does it mean if no Bandwidth Ratio is displayed on bridges.torproject.org scanner (while obfs4 reachability is displayed)? (For one of my bridges, there is no "Bandwidth ratio" entry, but a "obfs4: functional" and a "Last tested" entry) A: The bandwidth ratio is the ratio of how fast is this bridge compared to the rest of bridges. it means that the bandwidth is not being tested yet by onbasca, it could be that onbasca has failed to test it or just need a bit longer, but we don't distribute bridges with low ratio.
On Sat, Jun 24, 2023 at 06:46:08PM +0200, lists@for-privacy.net wrote:
On Samstag, 24. Juni 2023 18:03:47 CEST lists@for-privacy.net wrote:
On Dienstag, 20. Juni 2023 23:01:23 CEST gus wrote:
Just a friendly reminder that the Relay Operator meetup will happen this Saturday, June 24 at 18 UTC.
## Agenda
- Announcements
- Tor Relay Operators meetup @ CCCamp 2023!
- More unrestricted snowflake proxies are needed
- Relays EOL (0.4.5.x) removal
- IPv4 limit proposal
Presentation about Webtunnel bridges with Tor Anti-censorship Team
Tor Network Health proposals discussion
- Meta proposal discussion
- contactinfo proposal discussion
- Q&A
https://pad.riseup.net/ is down :-( As an alternative, the 'German riseup' systemli could be taken. systemli.org is hosted on its own servers at Community-IX.
I think gus copied the pad. Thanks. Hidden service link is: http://mjrkrqnlf26etelsi7zpkqc3dzlrzyurvmd3jksmndarzzbugz5xctid.onion/p/tor-...
-- ╰_╯ Ciao Marco!
Debian GNU/Linux
It's free software and it gives you freedom!
tor-relays mailing list tor-relays@lists.torproject.org https://lists.torproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tor-relays
On 6/26/23 23:44, gus wrote:
- Recommendation: Do not run snowflake proxy on the same IP as a relay/bridge. It's a good call to run it on a machine with public dynamic IP address.
I setup 6 snowflakes as VPS with a fixed IP. After which time those IPs should be changed ?
Quoting Toralf Förster (2023-06-27 10:27:18)
On 6/26/23 23:44, gus wrote:
- Recommendation: Do not run snowflake proxy on the same IP as a relay/bridge. It's a good call to run it on a machine with public dynamic IP address.
I setup 6 snowflakes as VPS with a fixed IP. After which time those IPs should be changed ?
Rotating the IP often will not affect the functionality of snowflake. But AFAIK censors are not blocking snowflake proxies (yet) by they IP address. So you don't need to bother to rotate it often, and I expect your proxy to keep being useful even if you don't rotate it. But if you have the possibility to do it once every few months might be handy if censors start catching up with stable proxies.
Hi,
On 26.06.23 23:44, gus wrote:
- Tor Relay Operators meetup @ CCCamp 2023. CCCamp (https://events.ccc.de/camp/2023/infos/) is taking place near
Berlin, Germany, in August. Ping gus or other tor people if you want to help.
unfortunately, I couldn't find any information about the planned meetup in the Fahrplan [*]. Is there already more detailed information about where and when?
Kind regards telekobold
tor-relays@lists.torproject.org
-
gus -
lists＠for-privacy.net -
meskio -
telekobold -
Toralf Förster