Exit Node Geographical Location
Hello, I want to start up another exit node. I have a few choices for which country it's in. I currently live in a country with quite a high exit node/population density. Are there any advantages to distributing nodes around the globe in terms of performance/privacy? Are there some countries where you definitely shouldn't run exit nodes? (Censored internet is an obvious example) C
Ive got exits in the US, France ,Finland (dead) and Bulgaria but its v difficult to find any exit providers in the Far East - I have relays in Bangalore and Singapore (which gets hit pretty hard) but if you do find a provider out East let us know P.s Bangalore is under utilised - 60mb/s but has barely used up 1Gb in 2 weeks a as oppsed to US exit which is doing 1TB a day now at 60mb/s with a 1000 connections most of the time We are supposed to go for geo diversity but usuage remains low for me in more isolated areas e.g Bangalore,Africa regards Mark B
On 8 Dec 2016, at 09:53, Chris Adams <chris@chrisada.co.uk> wrote:
Hello,
I want to start up another exit node. I have a few choices for which country it's in. I currently live in a country with quite a high exit node/population density.
Are there any advantages to distributing nodes around the globe in terms of performance/privacy?
Are there some countries where you definitely shouldn't run exit nodes? (Censored internet is an obvious example)
C _______________________________________________ tor-relays mailing list tor-relays@lists.torproject.org https://lists.torproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tor-relays
Interesting... Don't exit nodes with equal bandwidth have equal chance of being utilised on a circuit? Why is your US exit being utilised more? Looking at the map, I thought Canada could do with a few more exits? Should geo diversity be related to numbers of internet users in that country? Ie, Canada, ~1/2 population of UK, so should run approximately 1/2 as many exits at least? Or am I overthinking this? Are there other legal advantages to running an exit node in another country? Such as choosing a country with which your own country has no extradition laws? In case something really bad happened. Regards, C On Thu, Dec 8, 2016 at 10:06 AM, Sec INT <sec.int9@gmail.com> wrote:
Ive got exits in the US, France ,Finland (dead) and Bulgaria but its v difficult to find any exit providers in the Far East - I have relays in Bangalore and Singapore (which gets hit pretty hard) but if you do find a provider out East let us know
P.s Bangalore is under utilised - 60mb/s but has barely used up 1Gb in 2 weeks a as oppsed to US exit which is doing 1TB a day now at 60mb/s with a 1000 connections most of the time
We are supposed to go for geo diversity but usuage remains low for me in more isolated areas e.g Bangalore,Africa
regards
Mark B
On 8 Dec 2016, at 09:53, Chris Adams <chris@chrisada.co.uk> wrote:
Hello,
I want to start up another exit node. I have a few choices for which country it's in. I currently live in a country with quite a high exit node/population density.
Are there any advantages to distributing nodes around the globe in terms of performance/privacy?
Are there some countries where you definitely shouldn't run exit nodes? (Censored internet is an obvious example)
C _______________________________________________ tor-relays mailing list tor-relays@lists.torproject.org https://lists.torproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tor-relays
tor-relays mailing list tor-relays@lists.torproject.org https://lists.torproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tor-relays
-- Chris Adams <http://chrisada.co.uk>
On 2016-12-08 10:32:25 (+0000), Chris Adams wrote:
Don't exit nodes with equal bandwidth have equal chance of being utilised on a circuit? Why is your US exit being utilised more?
I think this would be related to the bandwidth observed by the authorities, which are far away (network wise) from such locations. This has been explained a couple of times recently (which is why I remember it :^)). Please don't top post. -- David Serrano PGP: 1BCC1A1F280A01F9
Exit nodes with equal bandwidth may well do. Unfortunately that one is now a Guard do throughput will probably go down. US just has alot of people trying to exit there - so its always busy - I find Tor follows the money mostly - high concentration in W.Europe and US but drops sharply anywhere else - - availability of cheap vps and bandwidth - open selling no censored or overwatched registration - decent home bandwidth and internet availability so lots of users - education - alot of people in censored countries are not always aware or bothered (Take the UK - most of my friends not interested in privacy or snooping at all they dont even realise that ISPs block websites en masse) Attacks via Tor are mostly from poorer countries to richer countries Eastern Europe is mostly out connections - US mostly inbound for instance As for diversity people want us to geo diverse but the payoff in terms of usuage is low so its up to you My relay in Canada is practically melting so usuage seems high - although nodal choice should be random it does seem to select based on the relative location of desired exit ( might not be true but seems like it) therefore US ,Canada ,France are really busy but Africa / Eastern Europe / Far East less so Location doesnt matter it depends where you are based - if your server is in Panama but youre in the UK and unless your are operating a company there then you are liable if they ever decide to pursue exit operators ( doubtful but possible) - as regards prosecution they would have to prove intent which under Tor is pretty impossible to do If you are wortied about that relays are the safe bet or do a reduced reduced exit policy which stops most of the 'economic' abuse they are really bothered about regards Mark B
On 8 Dec 2016, at 10:32, Chris Adams <chris@chrisada.co.uk> wrote:
Interesting...
Don't exit nodes with equal bandwidth have equal chance of being utilised on a circuit? Why is your US exit being utilised more?
Looking at the map, I thought Canada could do with a few more exits?
Should geo diversity be related to numbers of internet users in that country? Ie, Canada, ~1/2 population of UK, so should run approximately 1/2 as many exits at least? Or am I overthinking this?
Are there other legal advantages to running an exit node in another country? Such as choosing a country with which your own country has no extradition laws? In case something really bad happened.
Regards,
C
On Thu, Dec 8, 2016 at 10:06 AM, Sec INT <sec.int9@gmail.com> wrote: Ive got exits in the US, France ,Finland (dead) and Bulgaria but its v difficult to find any exit providers in the Far East - I have relays in Bangalore and Singapore (which gets hit pretty hard) but if you do find a provider out East let us know
P.s Bangalore is under utilised - 60mb/s but has barely used up 1Gb in 2 weeks a as oppsed to US exit which is doing 1TB a day now at 60mb/s with a 1000 connections most of the time
We are supposed to go for geo diversity but usuage remains low for me in more isolated areas e.g Bangalore,Africa
regards
Mark B
On 8 Dec 2016, at 09:53, Chris Adams <chris@chrisada.co.uk> wrote:
Hello,
I want to start up another exit node. I have a few choices for which country it's in. I currently live in a country with quite a high exit node/population density.
Are there any advantages to distributing nodes around the globe in terms of performance/privacy?
Are there some countries where you definitely shouldn't run exit nodes? (Censored internet is an obvious example)
C _______________________________________________ tor-relays mailing list tor-relays@lists.torproject.org https://lists.torproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tor-relays
tor-relays mailing list tor-relays@lists.torproject.org https://lists.torproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tor-relays
-- Chris Adams _______________________________________________ tor-relays mailing list tor-relays@lists.torproject.org https://lists.torproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tor-relays
On 8 Dec. 2016, at 22:08, Sec INT <sec.int9@gmail.com> wrote:
US just has alot of people trying to exit there - so its always busy
Tor clients choose exits at random, based on the ports the exit allows. They *do not* try to find an exit close to the site they are going to.
- I find Tor follows the money mostly - high concentration in W.Europe and US but drops sharply anywhere else -
All the tor bandwidth-measuring authorities are also located in either Western Europe or the US. Relays closer to a bandwidth authority (lower network latency) are measured faster than those further away. This is a side-effect of measuring the delay in transmission inside the relay itself.
On 9 Dec. 2016, at 06:23, Duncan Guthrie <dguthrie@posteo.net> wrote:
Thus, running relays in Africa and Asia should be a priority right now.
To make this work well, we would need bandwidth authorities in Africa and Asia. Otherwise, those relays won't be used much. (We're working on it - I hope!) T -- Tim Wilson-Brown (teor) teor2345 at gmail dot com PGP C855 6CED 5D90 A0C5 29F6 4D43 450C BA7F 968F 094B ricochet:ekmygaiu4rzgsk6n xmpp: teor at torproject dot org ------------------------------------------------------------------------
On 09 Dec 2016, at 09:34, teor <teor2345@gmail.com> wrote:
On 8 Dec. 2016, at 22:08, Sec INT <sec.int9@gmail.com> wrote:
US just has alot of people trying to exit there - so its always busy
Tor clients choose exits at random, based on the ports the exit allows. They *do not* try to find an exit close to the site they are going to.
- I find Tor follows the money mostly - high concentration in W.Europe and US but drops sharply anywhere else -
All the tor bandwidth-measuring authorities are also located in either Western Europe or the US. Relays closer to a bandwidth authority (lower network latency) are measured faster than those further away.
This is a side-effect of measuring the delay in transmission inside the relay itself.
On 9 Dec. 2016, at 06:23, Duncan Guthrie <dguthrie@posteo.net> wrote:
Thus, running relays in Africa and Asia should be a priority right now.
To make this work well, we would need bandwidth authorities in Africa and Asia. Otherwise, those relays won't be used much.
(We're working on it - I hope!)
Just adding bw auths in Africa won't do too much, because the relevant factor is who is dominating the median. If we had a majority of bwauths there, the european/us relays would get measured worse. Also, the more diversity we have, the worse the latency gets anyway - this is not to say that we shouldn't add more diversity, but there'll be clearly noticable issues. Maybe we could add something to the current system where we try to estimate how much path length will make a measurement worse by default, and compensate for that somehow. Otoh, the current state of bwauths is so sad that I don't know if that'd be even remotely possible. Also such a system must be resistant to tampering, of course. Cheers Sebastian
Okay, So I've found a ISP in Kenya that says they're happy to host a tor exit node. The ping is 270ms from a Canadian ISP, 16 hops. 183ms from Germany, 13 hops. Ultimately, am I making the tor network better or worse, if I were to set up some tor nodes here? - Chris On Fri, Dec 9, 2016 at 8:41 AM, Sebastian Hahn <sebastian@torproject.org> wrote:
On 09 Dec 2016, at 09:34, teor <teor2345@gmail.com> wrote:
On 8 Dec. 2016, at 22:08, Sec INT <sec.int9@gmail.com> wrote:
US just has alot of people trying to exit there - so its always busy
Tor clients choose exits at random, based on the ports the exit allows. They *do not* try to find an exit close to the site they are going to.
- I find Tor follows the money mostly - high concentration in W.Europe and US but drops sharply anywhere else -
All the tor bandwidth-measuring authorities are also located in either Western Europe or the US. Relays closer to a bandwidth authority (lower network latency) are measured faster than those further away.
This is a side-effect of measuring the delay in transmission inside the relay itself.
On 9 Dec. 2016, at 06:23, Duncan Guthrie <dguthrie@posteo.net> wrote:
Thus, running relays in Africa and Asia should be a priority right now.
To make this work well, we would need bandwidth authorities in Africa and Asia. Otherwise, those relays won't be used much.
(We're working on it - I hope!)
Just adding bw auths in Africa won't do too much, because the relevant factor is who is dominating the median. If we had a majority of bwauths there, the european/us relays would get measured worse. Also, the more diversity we have, the worse the latency gets anyway - this is not to say that we shouldn't add more diversity, but there'll be clearly noticable issues.
Maybe we could add something to the current system where we try to estimate how much path length will make a measurement worse by default, and compensate for that somehow. Otoh, the current state of bwauths is so sad that I don't know if that'd be even remotely possible. Also such a system must be resistant to tampering, of course.
Cheers Sebastian _______________________________________________ tor-relays mailing list tor-relays@lists.torproject.org https://lists.torproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tor-relays
-- Chris Adams <http://chrisada.co.uk>
On 2016-12-09 at 15:09, Chris Adams wrote:
Okay,
So I've found a ISP in Kenya that says they're happy to host a tor exit node. The ping is 270ms from a Canadian ISP, 16 hops. 183ms from Germany, 13 hops.
Ultimately, am I making the tor network better or worse, if I were to set up some tor nodes here?
- Chris
Hi Chris, If it is affordable, it sounds like a great addition. 183ms ping from Germany isn't that bad at all. Sometimes I have pings to Canada or USA at 200ms, depending on the exact route. If they are happy to host a Tor exit node, you could add them to the ISP list in the wiki (though the spam filter has problems right now), or at least mention them here if you want to :) Best, Michael
Good work Chris - not sure if you know yet but what sort of price per month and is it vps or dedicated? Cheers Mark B
On 9 Dec 2016, at 14:17, Michael Armbruster <tor@armbrust.me> wrote:
On 2016-12-09 at 15:09, Chris Adams wrote: Okay,
So I've found a ISP in Kenya that says they're happy to host a tor exit node. The ping is 270ms from a Canadian ISP, 16 hops. 183ms from Germany, 13 hops.
Ultimately, am I making the tor network better or worse, if I were to set up some tor nodes here?
- Chris
Hi Chris,
If it is affordable, it sounds like a great addition. 183ms ping from Germany isn't that bad at all. Sometimes I have pings to Canada or USA at 200ms, depending on the exact route.
If they are happy to host a Tor exit node, you could add them to the ISP list in the wiki (though the spam filter has problems right now), or at least mention them here if you want to :)
Best, Michael
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Hi folks, I think it would be interesting to run relays in Africa and Asia. Especially Africa, as this area has growing internet usage, and censorship of the internet in some countries is not widespread, e.g. Liberia. Another argument is that even if there is censorship, having more relays in these countries is still important to help protect people in other countries. For example, you are going to want your traffic to exit in somewhere like Russia if you are in the US or UK since Russia is unlikely to hand over data it is collecting to the US or UK governments. Thus, running relays in Africa and Asia should be a priority right now. Duncan On 8 December 2016 9:53:11 am GMT+00:00, Chris Adams <chris@chrisada.co.uk> wrote:
Hello,
I want to start up another exit node. I have a few choices for which country it's in. I currently live in a country with quite a high exit node/population density.
Are there any advantages to distributing nodes around the globe in terms of performance/privacy?
Are there some countries where you definitely shouldn't run exit nodes? (Censored internet is an obvious example)
C
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participants (7)
-
Chris Adams -
David Serrano -
Duncan Guthrie -
Michael Armbruster -
Sebastian Hahn -
Sec INT -
teor