Some legal trouble with TOR in France

Tony Tony at
Sun May 14 14:18:12 UTC 2006

Unfortunately you no longer have a right to remain silent in the UK.

Even for general offences they can interpret it as evidence of guilt in

Hopefully EU / Human Rights legislation will resolve that at some point.

You could however find other ways to get round the requirement. For
instance you could provide a USB token that contained the keys, but also
contained a bootable image that on inserting into your PC wiped your TPM
and then wiped the key. You have then met your requirement to provide
the key...

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-or-talk at [mailto:owner-or-talk at]
On Behalf Of Lionel Elie Mamane
Sent: 14 May 2006 14:58
To: or-talk at
Subject: Re: Some legal trouble with TOR in France

On Sun, May 14, 2006 at 02:32:50PM +0100, Dave Page wrote:
> On Sun, May 14, 2006 at 01:34:51PM +0100, Tony wrote:

>> So if for instance they take your disks away as per the French TOR
>> node, then you could destroy your hardware key (wipe TPM module,
>> destroy motherboard chipset or USB dongle) and they are not going
>> to be reading anything, ever. Even if they do take the whole system
>> away then they wont be able to login to access your data even if
>> they can boot unless they have your password (and biometrics or USB
>> token, etc.)

> Under the British "Regulation of Investigatory Powers Act", they
> would simply confiscate the entire machine, demand any
> authentication tokens required to access it, and lock you up if you
> refused to surrender them.  I believe similar laws exist in most EU
> jurisdictions now.

Tony's point was that you could arrange not to have the authentication
tokens anymore. You better hope they believe you when you say you
don't have it, though. And under at least some EU registrations, some
people have a right to remain silent. Like the accused person, for
example. And people that have a right to remain silent can refuse to
hand over cryptographic keys.

Not that some powers haven't been known to first interrogate you as
"unrelated witness" (neither you, nor your family, is accused), where
remaining silent is obstruction of justice and punishable, and _then_
charge you with the information thus gleaned.


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