[tor-project] Proposal for the people page: Pronouns

Tom Ritter tom at ritter.vg
Thu May 24 02:14:59 UTC 2018

So if I was going to try and get a pulse of what people think we
should do here, I've got:

Do: If anything is done, contact everyone on the people page and make
sure everyone has the opportunity to participate.

Do: Offer that individuals re-word their bio to include a pronoun.

Probably: Figure out an uncluttered way to indicate a pronoun apart
from the bio.
Idea 1: My initial float-right
Idea 2: Linked to pronoun.is
Idea 3: Bump irc down and put pronoun first
Idea 4: Bump irc to the right and put pronoun right below name

Of these, I like 2 and 4. Putting irc to the right groups it with
contact information. Putting Pronoun under the name links it with
name. Linking to pronoun.is should (hopefully) allow us to use the
minimal wording 'he', 'they', 'e', etc but provide full context.

What I've got is:

And if you opt to not specify the pronoun specifically, irc will still
stay to the right.

      <a id="tjr"></a>
      <div class="photo"><img src="../images/people/tjr.png" alt="tjr"
width="128" height="150"></div>
      <div class="icon"><a href="https://twitter.com/tomrittervg"><img
src="../images/twitter-small.png" alt="twitter" width="20"
      <div class="icon"><a
src="../images/pgp-key.png" alt="pgp key" width="20"
      <div class="name"><a href="#tjr">Tom Ritter</a></div>
  <div class="field-pronoun" style="float:left"><a
      <div class="field-irc"
style="float:right;margin-right:5px;"><b>IRC:</b> tjr</div>
      <div class="description" style="margin-top:15px">Maintains <a
href="https://consensus-health.torproject.org/">Consensus Health </a>,
runs one of the bandwidth authorities, and contributes to Tor


On 21 May 2018 at 21:08, Nima Fatemi <nima at torproject.org> wrote:
> Hi Juha,
>> I agree with John and let me explain why.
>> This conversation is concentrated to native English speakers.
>> For example, Uralic languages (with the most native speakers are Hungarian,
>> Finnish, and Estonian) lack of grammatical gender. Logically there is one
>> pronoun for both he and she; for example, hän in Finnish. As a result,
>> logic of language expressing gender is strange for Finnish speakers. This
>> causes Finnish people often mix, for instance, she/he and
>> actor/actress when they try to speak English. For them hän is always
>> correct and neutral!
> I'm a self taught English speaker and my native language is a gender
> neutral one, like yours. But I disagree with you and John and am
> actually concerned by his trolling efforts to waste hours and hours of
> our collective time that could be spent on doing better things.
> While I tend to ignore emails coming from John (as I've long lost
> assuming good faith), I figured I'd reply to yours as it may have come
> from a different place. We're all coming from different backgrounds (and
> cultures) but here we're talking and writing in English and
> collectively, have chosen this language as our main communication
> channel. It only makes sense to respect the etiquette of the language if
> we want to maintain the rule of "be excellent to each other" and have a
> healthier and more inclusive community, which in my personal opinion is
> something we might not have always been the best at, but hey we're
> having this conversation so there are improvements.
>> As a native Finnish speaker my language codes my brain not to see
>> difference and the whole idea is untranslatable to my native language. As a
>> result, I often mix between she/he/hers/his/actor/actress etc. Indeed, I
>> have said something like "About my grandmonther, he is..." in English which
>> translates completely right to my language!
> I too make this mistake a lot. And that is okay. If you catch yourself
> making that mistake, you can always correct yourself. It takes about 2
> seconds. And if you don't, that's okay too. As long as it's an honest
> mistake and you don't deliberately continue to call somebody with the
> wrong pronouns. My rule of thumb is that I default to they/them in my
> language to avoid people's feelings.
>> Most of the Tor user are not speaking English as their first language.
> This is true, and for many years, I've been an advocate to move away
> from focusing too much on the English speaking user-base. This is a fine
> argument to have under another topic and when it's related to our
> products and definitely not under this topic. It's not our place to
> decide who wants to be called what and how.
> Live and let live.
> Peace,
> --
> Nima
> 0X58C4B928A3E218F6 | @mrphs
> "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right
> to say it" --Evelyn Beatrice Hall
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