Re: [tor-relays] What if my favorite online store websiteblacklists all Tor Relay IP addresses?
Likely someone was doing credit card fraud/hacking type stuff and choosing Tor as the way to connect for it. That stuff is a pain in the ass for online stores when it happens. Not surprised that outfits handling online payments don't want Tor connections, and I can't blame them tbh. It shouldn't be hard to find a workaround if your purchases are infrequent and anonymity in that particular connection isn't an issue (cell phones have internet these days, 'net from a friend's house, whatever). Not sure where you live but, I read that these days, USA is photographing the fronts of all postal mail. So, mailed merchandise isn't exactly a win on privacy anyway. On Sunday 25/08/2013 at 4:23 pm, David Carlson wrote:
On 8/25/2013 2:41 PM, Dave Lahr wrote:
I'm in the same boat: for example yelp.com and TDBank North are blocking us.
On Sun, Aug 25, 2013 at 2:30 PM, David Carlson <david.carlson.417@gmail.com> wrote:
It seems that at least two 'normal' online store websites that I visit from time to time have apparently decided to block my IP address which I am also using for a non-exit Tor relay. I have had extended discussions with one of them and they considered unblocking my IP address to be a risk greater than the lost income (US $160/year revenue) was worth. They suggested switching to a different IP address, which was like pulling hens' teeth from my ISP. To do that, I had to have a technician visit my house and install a new modem because they do not have a person who understands tech talk available for ordinary users, and I couldn't get sufficiently elevated in their support hierarchy. The supposedly dynamic IP address that I get from them hardly ever changes, probably because I am buying U-verse television service from them. Now, after a couple of months, the "new" IP address is also blocked.
My question is this. What if it becomes common practice for commercial entities such as online stores to block all IP addresses that they find on lists of Tor relays such as <https://www.dan.me.uk/tornodes> or the official Tor metrics data? That list is updated every half hour, includes all nodes, and is not limited to exit nodes. It currently lists 4438 nodes. That is a manageable size for a blacklist, but it could represent tens or hundreds of thousands of clients.
Wouldn't this eventually either cripple the Tor network or generally discourage Tor clients that can no longer buy products online from store XYZ through the Tor network?
David C _______________________________________________ tor-relays mailing list tor-relays@lists.torproject.org https://lists.torproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tor-relays
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tor-relays mailing list tor-relays@lists.torproject.org https://lists.torproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tor-relays In the short term, it is possible to to circumvent these practices by using one or more of several different methods, but informing the online store that they are shooting themselves in the foot is not one of them. After all, they are experts and we are just ignoramuses, even if we know what an IP address is.
Also, client tactics like going to a public hotspot is either not an option for someone who wants the Tor anonymity, or problematic at best if all or nearly all Tor node IP addresses are blocked at the vendor end.
That is why I asked the general question. _______________________________________________ tor-relays mailing list tor-relays@lists.torproject.org https://lists.torproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tor-relays
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA512 tor@t-3.net:
Not sure where you live but, I read that these days, USA is photographing the fronts of all postal mail. So, mailed merchandise isn't exactly a win on privacy anyway.
That is correct[1]. 1. http://www.nytimes.com/2013/08/03/us/postal-service-confirms-photographing-a... Best, - -Gordon M. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQEcBAEBCgAGBQJSGrNdAAoJED/jpRoe7/uj7ZIH/2tcPxpO0F0G+W0fI3cWu/CC +Igh8j9zpXJkA1Z8YODuiyD26G3VQSg3IILXUjfCpzvLsP3xKzxImD3atocXK7y7 O7tLdgyLg4nPLNtILQtOe26g3W59ljxPJXoHRwGpO0N1g94qkggepxB3qz83UZe/ TPZ3iIhtImvYmzXgU1RHK+3X5ikAlRFShbgPG7IsZrsB9QMFgDL4fGL0x1/ipTLh mfuzdHbfAYqW4zXVgn9wuncWZK/FY1D2e5gMbavrVpR1jRFxuAB81ty230ibOHPC 1DX4+pqHZOWyNpEpADX+aejhpA9F2yLE6ahhnTtv8UBNxpWh2OZwEP4pem+EQJ0= =rbQ3 -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
I run a tor exit node (CulverCityChuck) using my home Internet (Time Warner). I did used to get blacklisted by Yelp and occasionally Google. I started using an anonymous VPN service for my exit node which gives it a different IP than the rest of my home traffic and haven't had a problem since. Costs less than $100 / year and gives me (and my ISP) some measure of protection from DMCA complaints. The other side of the issue would be customers accessing web storefronts via tor and getting blocked because the traffic comes from an exit node. Not sure what the answer to that is. Chuck Bevitt Sent from my iPad On Aug 25, 2013, at 6:46 PM, Gordon Morehouse <gordon@morehouse.me> wrote:
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tor@t-3.net:
Not sure where you live but, I read that these days, USA is photographing the fronts of all postal mail. So, mailed merchandise isn't exactly a win on privacy anyway.
That is correct[1].
1. http://www.nytimes.com/2013/08/03/us/postal-service-confirms-photographing-a...
Best, - -Gordon M.
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
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Chuck do you run Tor on a separate machine to do that? Or have you found some way to pass only your Tor traffic through the VPN? Cheers. ----- My full signature with lots of links etc.<https://bittit.info/publicDro/signature.html> On Mon, Aug 26, 2013 at 10:01 AM, Chuck Bevitt <Tor@bevitt.ws> wrote:
I run a tor exit node (CulverCityChuck) using my home Internet (Time Warner). I did used to get blacklisted by Yelp and occasionally Google. I started using an anonymous VPN service for my exit node which gives it a different IP than the rest of my home traffic and haven't had a problem since. Costs less than $100 / year and gives me (and my ISP) some measure of protection from DMCA complaints.
The other side of the issue would be customers accessing web storefronts via tor and getting blocked because the traffic comes from an exit node. Not sure what the answer to that is.
Chuck Bevitt
Sent from my iPad
On Aug 25, 2013, at 6:46 PM, Gordon Morehouse <gordon@morehouse.me> wrote:
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA512
tor@t-3.net:
Not sure where you live but, I read that these days, USA is photographing the fronts of all postal mail. So, mailed merchandise isn't exactly a win on privacy anyway.
That is correct[1].
1.
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/08/03/us/postal-service-confirms-photographing-a...
Best, - -Gordon M.
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
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Just wanted to follow up - I emailed yelp, never heard back from them, but now we can access it. We can also access TDBank North (I can't remember if I emailed them or not). On Mon, Aug 26, 2013 at 11:37 AM, Konstantinos Asimakis <inshame@gmail.com>wrote:
Chuck do you run Tor on a separate machine to do that? Or have you found some way to pass only your Tor traffic through the VPN?
Cheers.
----- My full signature with lots of links etc.<https://bittit.info/publicDro/signature.html>
On Mon, Aug 26, 2013 at 10:01 AM, Chuck Bevitt <Tor@bevitt.ws> wrote:
I run a tor exit node (CulverCityChuck) using my home Internet (Time Warner). I did used to get blacklisted by Yelp and occasionally Google. I started using an anonymous VPN service for my exit node which gives it a different IP than the rest of my home traffic and haven't had a problem since. Costs less than $100 / year and gives me (and my ISP) some measure of protection from DMCA complaints.
The other side of the issue would be customers accessing web storefronts via tor and getting blocked because the traffic comes from an exit node. Not sure what the answer to that is.
Chuck Bevitt
Sent from my iPad
On Aug 25, 2013, at 6:46 PM, Gordon Morehouse <gordon@morehouse.me> wrote:
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA512
tor@t-3.net:
Not sure where you live but, I read that these days, USA is photographing the fronts of all postal mail. So, mailed merchandise isn't exactly a win on privacy anyway.
That is correct[1].
1.
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/08/03/us/postal-service-confirms-photographing-a...
Best, - -Gordon M.
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_______________________________________________ tor-relays mailing list tor-relays@lists.torproject.org https://lists.torproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tor-relays
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participants (5)
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Chuck Bevitt -
Dave Lahr -
Gordon Morehouse -
Konstantinos Asimakis -
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