Re: [tor-relays] Raspberry Pi Relay Node Performance and future Plans on Documentation and more
Hello all,
For any Raspberry Pi Tor node operators breathlessly following this thread :P I succeeded in building 0.2.4.16-rc on the Pi. We will see how it performs now vs the circuit creation storms.
me too on the pi with kernel 3.6.11, using this source: https://www.torproject.org/dist/tor-0.2.4.16-rc.tar.gz it took 32 minutes to configure and compile (make && make install).
This is not a simple Debian-type binary package install, as the packages present in the Tor Project experimental repos are built for *Debian* wheezy - that is, ARMv7 - and not *Raspbian* which was built to support the ARMv6 CPU on the Pi.
I'm wondering, is there any other method for running a tor bridge/relay on the raspberry pi, other than downloading the source and compiling it yourself?
Is it possible for the Tor project to make an extra option on the page https://www.torproject.org/download/download-unix.html.en with instructions for people to run a bridge/relay on the Pi? I think it will help people not to spend time on installing the experimental wheezy package for the ARMv7 architecture.
Tor_Bridge
On Tue, 13 Aug 2013 12:02:35 +0000 tor_bridge@mail.md wrote:
I'm wondering, is there any other method for running a tor bridge/relay on the raspberry pi, other than downloading the source and compiling it yourself?
Raspbian has it in the repositories[1].
apt-get install tor
Done. No need to build anything from the source.
[1] http://archive.raspbian.org/raspbian/pool/main/t/tor/
On Tue, Aug 13, 2013 at 3:58 PM, Roman Mamedov rm@romanrm.net wrote:
On Tue, 13 Aug 2013 12:02:35 +0000 tor_bridge@mail.md wrote:
I'm wondering, is there any other method for running a tor bridge/relay on the raspberry pi, other than downloading the source and compiling it yourself?
Raspbian has it in the repositories[1].
apt-get install tor
Done. No need to build anything from the source.
You need Tor 0.2.4.* to run an obfsproxy bridge, which I wanted to do. Wheezy repo only has 0.2.3.*; 0.2.4.* is only in the experimental Debian distro repo [1], afaik.
All,
You need Tor 0.2.4.* to run an obfsproxy bridge, which I wanted to do. Wheezy repo only has 0.2.3.*; 0.2.4.* is only in the experimental
^^^^^^^^^^^^
Debian distro repo [1], afaik.
AFAIK too. That was the exact reason why I asked if there was another way to run a bridge/relay on a Pi, besides building from source (again, still talking about 0.2.4.x). 32 minutes is OK, but it would be easier if there was a line for the Pi like
deb http://deb.torproject.org/torproject.org experimental-<DISTRIBUTION> main
With regards
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Roman Mamedov:
On Tue, 13 Aug 2013 12:02:35 +0000 tor_bridge@mail.md wrote:
I'm wondering, is there any other method for running a tor bridge/relay on the raspberry pi, other than downloading the source and compiling it yourself?
Raspbian has it in the repositories[1].
apt-get install tor
Done. No need to build anything from the source.
This is 0.2.3.x, as one other poster explained; not only is it missing some useful features, but it appears that 0.2.4.x is much faster (= more usable, less crashy) on the Pi.
Best, - -Gordon M.
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tor_bridge@mail.md:
Is it possible for the Tor project to make an extra option on the page https://www.torproject.org/download/download-unix.html.en with instructions for people to run a bridge/relay on the Pi? I think it will help people not to spend time on installing the experimental wheezy package for the ARMv7 architecture.
Speaking only for myself, I have a huge blog post (to be edited down, most of it is notes to myself right now) brewing on how to make an extremely stable, congestion-avoidant Raspberry Pi relay (or bridge) node that can be plugged into friends' and family members' broadband connections and help the network without degrading their performance.
It's still very much a work in progress. There are a lot of Tor relay on Pi guides out there, but they're mostly just "do this, this, this and go" which has bad results in some cases as we've seen, and requires more manual configuration than I personally would prefer for congestion avoidance.
My dream is a teeny relay on ALL the broadbands.
Best, - -Gordon M.
Speaking only for myself (in turn), this is something I would desperately like to see. I've been planning on deploying several Raspberry Pis for Tor, but seeing all the reports on storms and routers crashing and etc. has demonstrated that it's just not ready for prime time yet--unless you go into all the debugging and manual tweaking required.
While I'm capable of getting a Pi to work correctly and write a few scripts to do specific tasks (I'm running two of them as automated, remotely-updatable video noticeboards), I don't have the expertise required to go through all the steps of compiling all the dependencies and source and then setting everything up. I can follow a list of steps, even steps with a significant amount of technical jargon and assumed knowledge, but navigating it on my own isn't something I currently have time to do.
On that note, if you ever want feedback on your blog post, I'd be happy to provide some.
-Lance
________________________________ From: Gordon Morehouse gordon@morehouse.me To: tor-relays@lists.torproject.org Sent: Wednesday, August 14, 2013 8:13:45 AM Subject: Re: [tor-relays] Raspberry Pi Relay Node Performance and future Plans on Documentation and more
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tor_bridge@mail.md:
Is it possible for the Tor project to make an extra option on the page https://www.torproject.org/download/download-unix.html.en with instructions for people to run a bridge/relay on the Pi? I think it will help people not to spend time on installing the experimental wheezy package for the ARMv7 architecture.
Speaking only for myself, I have a huge blog post (to be edited down, most of it is notes to myself right now) brewing on how to make an extremely stable, congestion-avoidant Raspberry Pi relay (or bridge) node that can be plugged into friends' and family members' broadband connections and help the network without degrading their performance.
It's still very much a work in progress. There are a lot of Tor relay on Pi guides out there, but they're mostly just "do this, this, this and go" which has bad results in some cases as we've seen, and requires more manual configuration than I personally would prefer for congestion avoidance.
My dream is a teeny relay on ALL the broadbands.
Best, - -Gordon M.
_______________________________________________ tor-relays mailing list tor-relays@lists.torproject.org https://lists.torproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tor-relays
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On Wed, 14 Aug 2013 10:47:42 -0700 (PDT) Lance Hathaway qhltx@yahoo.com wrote:
Speaking only for myself (in turn), this is something I would desperately like to see. I've been planning on deploying several Raspberry Pis for Tor, but seeing all the reports on storms and routers crashing and etc. has demonstrated that it's just not ready for prime time yet--unless you go into all the debugging and manual tweaking required.
Get an Allwinner A20-based Cubieboard or Marsboard instead. While somewhat more expensive, those sport twice more of three to six _times_ faster RAM, dual CPU cores with each of those cores by itself being more than twice faster than the RPi core. And this being ARMv7, you can use the standard Debian or Ubuntu with their repos directly (although still need a non-official installer/image).
http://cubieboard.org/ http://www.hotmcu.com/marsboard-a20-dev-board-p-60.html
- -- With respect, Roman
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Roman Mamedov:
On Wed, 14 Aug 2013 10:47:42 -0700 (PDT) Lance Hathaway qhltx@yahoo.com wrote:
Speaking only for myself (in turn), this is something I would desperately like to see. I've been planning on deploying several Raspberry Pis for Tor, but seeing all the reports on storms and routers crashing and etc. has demonstrated that it's just not ready for prime time yet--unless you go into all the debugging and manual tweaking required.
Get an Allwinner A20-based Cubieboard or Marsboard instead. While somewhat more expensive, those sport twice more of three to six _times_ faster RAM, dual CPU cores with each of those cores by itself being more than twice faster than the RPi core. And this being ARMv7, you can use the standard Debian or Ubuntu with their repos directly (although still need a non-official installer/image).
http://cubieboard.org/ http://www.hotmcu.com/marsboard-a20-dev-board-p-60.html
I'm actually experimenting with an A20 Cubieboard for running more heavyweight anti-censorship software (i.e. Freenet and I2P).
While the specs blow the doors off the Pi, and the Cubie would likely run Tor without complaint, you will find a couple things about the Cubieboard 2:
* Debian wheezy ('stable') is not stable on it. It's got issues. * I, personally, know the Pi is capable of being a useful relay up to maybe 5Mbps, it just needs tuning - and the cheaper "Torbian"[1] boxes are, the more homes they'll make it into.
[1] http://www.torbian.org/ (currently just redirects to a github for the purpose of beginning to organize/build a number of bulletproof Pi-based tor relay stuff)
Best, - -Gordon M.
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Good news, everyone!
Lance Hathaway:
Speaking only for myself (in turn), this is something I would desperately like to see. I've been planning on deploying several Raspberry Pis for Tor, but seeing all the reports on storms and routers crashing and etc. has demonstrated that it's just not ready for prime time yet--unless you go into all the debugging and manual tweaking required.
I've put binary .debs[1] up of the latest Tor experimental version - 0.2.4.16-rc - which are built for the Raspberry Pi. I only have a few days of test data, but so far it appears to perform much better than 0.2.3.x.
I'm working to get a few more Pi-based relays into the homes of friends so I can experiment with congestion avoidance and easy setup and eventually make a Raspbian 'flavor' and .deb metapackage that can turn any Pi into a high stable, extremely congestion-avoidant Tor relay.
The congestion avoidance paranoia is because of this inevitable truth: if the TorPi that Johnny plugged into grandma's broadband makes Netflix or Hulu perform poorly, grandma will unplug it. So, I'm anticipating on writing some scripts and utilizing some relatively new kernel congestion avoidance facilities such as TCP CoDel[2].
This will take a while, don't hold your breath. But in light of recent news, I'm committed to it.
[1] https://github.com/gordon-morehouse/torbian/tree/master/raspbian_packages
[2] http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2012/05/codel-buffer-managemen...
Best, - -Gordon M.
Hi Gordon, I'm having a little trouble installing your deb files using sudo dpkg -i. Am I missing something. Thx. Tom On Aug 18, 2013 12:36 AM, "Gordon Morehouse" gordon@morehouse.me wrote:
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Good news, everyone!
Lance Hathaway:
Speaking only for myself (in turn), this is something I would desperately like to see. I've been planning on deploying several Raspberry Pis for Tor, but seeing all the reports on storms and routers crashing and etc. has demonstrated that it's just not ready for prime time yet--unless you go into all the debugging and manual tweaking required.
I've put binary .debs[1] up of the latest Tor experimental version - 0.2.4.16-rc - which are built for the Raspberry Pi. I only have a few days of test data, but so far it appears to perform much better than 0.2.3.x.
I'm working to get a few more Pi-based relays into the homes of friends so I can experiment with congestion avoidance and easy setup and eventually make a Raspbian 'flavor' and .deb metapackage that can turn any Pi into a high stable, extremely congestion-avoidant Tor relay.
The congestion avoidance paranoia is because of this inevitable truth: if the TorPi that Johnny plugged into grandma's broadband makes Netflix or Hulu perform poorly, grandma will unplug it. So, I'm anticipating on writing some scripts and utilizing some relatively new kernel congestion avoidance facilities such as TCP CoDel[2].
This will take a while, don't hold your breath. But in light of recent news, I'm committed to it.
[1] https://github.com/gordon-morehouse/torbian/tree/master/raspbian_packages
[2]
http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2012/05/codel-buffer-managemen...
Best,
- -Gordon M.
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Thomas Hand:
Hi Gordon, I'm having a little trouble installing your deb files using sudo dpkg -i. Am I missing something. Thx. Tom
There may be dependencies - I believe 'apt-get install' has some option that'll download them, if that's your problem. I think there's a noarch dependency in there somewhere.
Post the exact error message if you can.
Best, - -Gordon M.
On Sun, Aug 18, 2013, at 12:35 AM, Gordon Morehouse wrote:
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Good news, everyone!
Lance Hathaway:
Speaking only for myself (in turn), this is something I would desperately like to see. I've been planning on deploying several Raspberry Pis for Tor, but seeing all the reports on storms and routers crashing and etc. has demonstrated that it's just not ready for prime time yet--unless you go into all the debugging and manual tweaking required.
I've put binary .debs[1] up of the latest Tor experimental version - 0.2.4.16-rc - which are built for the Raspberry Pi. I only have a few days of test data, but so far it appears to perform much better than 0.2.3.x.
Sorry to be the ghost at the feast, but should people trust your binaries? Not that I know anything about Github, so am prepared to be proved wrong: are these a deterministic build from published source? Nothing personal, just reflecting the ethos of the list I think. Regards, GD
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Geoff Down:
On Sun, Aug 18, 2013, at 12:35 AM, Gordon Morehouse wrote:
I've put binary .debs[1] up of the latest Tor experimental version - 0.2.4.16-rc - which are built for the Raspberry Pi. I only have a few days of test data, but so far it appears to perform much better than 0.2.3.x.
Sorry to be the ghost at the feast, but should people trust your binaries?
That's up to them - I am who I am, currently just an independent hobbyist, so that's an individual decision for them to make. However, it would be nice for me to also put the instructions[1] for building on your own Pi (or any machine) into the Github repo as well.
Also, I've never heard "ghost at the feast" before - is that from a specific country? :)
Not that I know anything about Github, so am prepared to be proved wrong: are these a deterministic build from published source?
They're what popped out when I followed the build-from-source instructions[1] on the Pi, using the deb-src packages for 0.2.4.16-rc from the Tor experimental repo with no other modifications - in fact, I think I probably should have put a minor version name on them to avoid being "upgraded over" with ARMv7 packages for people who have the experimental Tor repo in their sources.list, but I'm not sure about that yet.
Nothing personal, just reflecting the ethos of the list I think.
No worries, it is what it is - people who don't like the idea of downloading binaries from some random dude can see the following link.
[1] https://www.torproject.org/docs/debian.html.en#source
Best, - -Gordon M.
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Gordon Morehouse:
Good news, everyone!
I've put binary .debs[1] up of the latest Tor experimental version
- 0.2.4.16-rc - which are built for the Raspberry Pi. I only have
a few days of test data, but so far it appears to perform much better than 0.2.3.x.
I learned that the 'Tor' name was trademarked, so I have changed the name of my github project from 'torbian' to 'cipollini'. Please find binary packages of Tor 0.2.4.16-rc for your Raspberry Pi at this new github repo:
https://github.com/gordon-morehouse/cipollini
(Cipollini are small sweet onions. I liked the image because a Pi is a small and potentially 'sweet' Tor relay.)
Best, - -Gordon M.
On Sun, Aug 18, 2013 at 11:22:58AM -0700, Gordon Morehouse wrote:
I learned that the 'Tor' name was trademarked, so I have changed the name of my github project from 'torbian' to 'cipollini'.
Thanks for helping the Tor community defend against the "Advanced Tor"s of the world. :)
--Roger
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On Sun, 18 Aug 2013 11:22:58 -0700 Gordon Morehouse gordon@morehouse.me wrote:
https://github.com/gordon-morehouse/cipollini
(Cipollini are small sweet onions. I liked the image because a Pi is a small and potentially 'sweet' Tor relay.)
Reminds me of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cipollino
"...a children's tale about political oppression"
"The main theme is the struggle of the underclass against the powerful, good versus evil, and the importance of friendship in the face of difficulties."
- -- With respect, Roman
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