Hi, I opened a ticket recently with the intention to use a more common unit than MiB/s for metrics. Karsten basically agrees but is waiting for more input. If someone is interested : https://trac.torproject.org/projects/tor/ticket/14257 -- Sincerely yours / Sincères salutations / M.f.G. Sebastian Urbach ----------------------------------------- Religion is fundamentally opposed to everything I hold in veneration - courage, clear thinking, honesty, fairness, and, above all, love of the truth. ----------------------------------------- Henry Louis Mencken (1880 - 1956), American journalist, essayist, magazine editor, satirist and critic.
On Mon, Jan 19, 2015 at 5:55 AM, Sebastian Urbach <sebastian@urbach.org> wrote:
I opened a ticket recently with the intention to use a more common unit than MiB/s for metrics. Karsten basically agrees but is waiting for more input.
Tor is at its core a network application, an interface to the network, a router. In the real ISP world therein everyone speaks in "mega bits per second" "10^n" (and now with 100Gbps links, in Gbps). Only the downstream hosting world speaks in "mega bytes" "2^n", "per" "whatever time unit they dream up". This comes from attempts by hosters to appease people pushing their disk files MiB's over the net at link rate, not spread over bandwidth rate. In fact, the hosters have to convert that appeasement on their backend to aggregated Mbps so they can talk to their real ISP's. I've suggested before that Tor project should use Mbit/s (or Mbps or Mbit[s] where the slash presents a problem) as its primary default representation for Tor client and all related projects that refer to bandwidth. Tor is a bandwidth app, especially at the relay level. There is no disk or instantaneous link rate transfer need applying to Tor relay. (As opposed to user level which is more of a mashup of rate usage contexts and interests similar to bittorrent/webserving.) Then if people want MiB's or MB's so they can continue perpetuating and interfacing with hosters who do the same, you could add a few global prefix, unit and time options to switch all representations over at once. (Tor client has recently added per stanza Mbps configs which is a fine alternative to global. Yet again, the manpage and even maybe the code still uses nonsense in regards to capitalization, base 2 vs 10, crossed contexts, etc...) Start here, use the table in the upper right, ignore jedec, and pick and apply 10^n or 2^n representations consistantly. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Binary_prefix " BandwidthRate N bytes|KBytes|MBytes|GBytes|KBits|MBits|GBits A token bucket limits the average incoming bandwidth usage on this node to the specified number of bytes per second, and the average outgoing bandwidth usage to that same value. If you want to run a relay in the public network, this needs to be at the very least 30 KBytes (that is, 30720 bytes). (Default: 1 GByte) Notably, "KBytes" can also be written as "kilobytes" or "kb"; " No, "KBytes" is invalid, there is no capital "K", only "k (SI)" and "Ki (binary)". Nor is "b" ever a byte, nor is "Bit[s]" ever capitalized. True network applications should also not be crossing network-like prefixes with disk-like objects or vice versa, ie: "Gibit[s] (non-network binary and single bit)", or the "GBytes (network SI and binary multiples of bit)" above. If you cross it up or make errors in context in one place that throws all your docs and configs into question. Even I still mess it up sometimes. " it's easy to forget that "B" means bytes, not bits. " Nope :) Abbr "B" means "byte" (now formally of width eight bits as in "octet/o", and still unfortunately caveat "bel/B" as in "dB"), and abbr "bit" means "bit", (and "b" is now just nothing but informal efficient shorthand for "bit" if I recall). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IEC_80000-13 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Byte https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Octet_(computing) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bit Anyway, tor relay is network not disk, so I'd suggest megabits, or kilo/giga as scale appropriate.
+1 grarpamp bits with decimal prefixes is the only thing that makes sense in the networking world. On 20 Jan 2015 00:09, "grarpamp" <grarpamp@gmail.com> wrote:
On Mon, Jan 19, 2015 at 5:55 AM, Sebastian Urbach <sebastian@urbach.org> wrote:
I opened a ticket recently with the intention to use a more common unit than MiB/s for metrics. Karsten basically agrees but is waiting for more input.
Tor is at its core a network application, an interface to the network, a router. In the real ISP world therein everyone speaks in "mega bits per second" "10^n" (and now with 100Gbps links, in Gbps).
Only the downstream hosting world speaks in "mega bytes" "2^n", "per" "whatever time unit they dream up". This comes from attempts by hosters to appease people pushing their disk files MiB's over the net at link rate, not spread over bandwidth rate. In fact, the hosters have to convert that appeasement on their backend to aggregated Mbps so they can talk to their real ISP's.
I've suggested before that Tor project should use Mbit/s (or Mbps or Mbit[s] where the slash presents a problem) as its primary default representation for Tor client and all related projects that refer to bandwidth. Tor is a bandwidth app, especially at the relay level. There is no disk or instantaneous link rate transfer need applying to Tor relay. (As opposed to user level which is more of a mashup of rate usage contexts and interests similar to bittorrent/webserving.)
Then if people want MiB's or MB's so they can continue perpetuating and interfacing with hosters who do the same, you could add a few global prefix, unit and time options to switch all representations over at once. (Tor client has recently added per stanza Mbps configs which is a fine alternative to global. Yet again, the manpage and even maybe the code still uses nonsense in regards to capitalization, base 2 vs 10, crossed contexts, etc...)
Start here, use the table in the upper right, ignore jedec, and pick and apply 10^n or 2^n representations consistantly. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Binary_prefix
" BandwidthRate N bytes|KBytes|MBytes|GBytes|KBits|MBits|GBits A token bucket limits the average incoming bandwidth usage on this node to the specified number of bytes per second, and the average outgoing bandwidth usage to that same value. If you want to run a relay in the public network, this needs to be at the very least 30 KBytes (that is, 30720 bytes). (Default: 1 GByte) Notably, "KBytes" can also be written as "kilobytes" or "kb"; "
No, "KBytes" is invalid, there is no capital "K", only "k (SI)" and "Ki (binary)". Nor is "b" ever a byte, nor is "Bit[s]" ever capitalized. True network applications should also not be crossing network-like prefixes with disk-like objects or vice versa, ie: "Gibit[s] (non-network binary and single bit)", or the "GBytes (network SI and binary multiples of bit)" above. If you cross it up or make errors in context in one place that throws all your docs and configs into question. Even I still mess it up sometimes.
" it's easy to forget that "B" means bytes, not bits. "
Nope :) Abbr "B" means "byte" (now formally of width eight bits as in "octet/o", and still unfortunately caveat "bel/B" as in "dB"), and abbr "bit" means "bit", (and "b" is now just nothing but informal efficient shorthand for "bit" if I recall).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IEC_80000-13 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Byte https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Octet_(computing) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bit
Anyway, tor relay is network not disk, so I'd suggest megabits, or kilo/giga as scale appropriate. _______________________________________________ tor-relays mailing list tor-relays@lists.torproject.org https://lists.torproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tor-relays
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Hi grarpamp, thanks for the detailed explanation. I just changed MiB/s to Gbit/s. All the best, Karsten On 20/01/15 00:08, grarpamp wrote:
On Mon, Jan 19, 2015 at 5:55 AM, Sebastian Urbach <sebastian@urbach.org> wrote:
I opened a ticket recently with the intention to use a more common unit than MiB/s for metrics. Karsten basically agrees but is waiting for more input.
Tor is at its core a network application, an interface to the network, a router. In the real ISP world therein everyone speaks in "mega bits per second" "10^n" (and now with 100Gbps links, in Gbps).
Only the downstream hosting world speaks in "mega bytes" "2^n", "per" "whatever time unit they dream up". This comes from attempts by hosters to appease people pushing their disk files MiB's over the net at link rate, not spread over bandwidth rate. In fact, the hosters have to convert that appeasement on their backend to aggregated Mbps so they can talk to their real ISP's.
I've suggested before that Tor project should use Mbit/s (or Mbps or Mbit[s] where the slash presents a problem) as its primary default representation for Tor client and all related projects that refer to bandwidth. Tor is a bandwidth app, especially at the relay level. There is no disk or instantaneous link rate transfer need applying to Tor relay. (As opposed to user level which is more of a mashup of rate usage contexts and interests similar to bittorrent/webserving.)
Then if people want MiB's or MB's so they can continue perpetuating and interfacing with hosters who do the same, you could add a few global prefix, unit and time options to switch all representations over at once. (Tor client has recently added per stanza Mbps configs which is a fine alternative to global. Yet again, the manpage and even maybe the code still uses nonsense in regards to capitalization, base 2 vs 10, crossed contexts, etc...)
Start here, use the table in the upper right, ignore jedec, and pick and apply 10^n or 2^n representations consistantly. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Binary_prefix
" BandwidthRate N bytes|KBytes|MBytes|GBytes|KBits|MBits|GBits A token bucket limits the average incoming bandwidth usage on this node to the specified number of bytes per second, and the average outgoing bandwidth usage to that same value. If you want to run a relay in the public network, this needs to be at the very least 30 KBytes (that is, 30720 bytes). (Default: 1 GByte) Notably, "KBytes" can also be written as "kilobytes" or "kb"; "
No, "KBytes" is invalid, there is no capital "K", only "k (SI)" and "Ki (binary)". Nor is "b" ever a byte, nor is "Bit[s]" ever capitalized. True network applications should also not be crossing network-like prefixes with disk-like objects or vice versa, ie: "Gibit[s] (non-network binary and single bit)", or the "GBytes (network SI and binary multiples of bit)" above. If you cross it up or make errors in context in one place that throws all your docs and configs into question. Even I still mess it up sometimes.
" it's easy to forget that "B" means bytes, not bits. "
Nope :) Abbr "B" means "byte" (now formally of width eight bits as in "octet/o", and still unfortunately caveat "bel/B" as in "dB"), and abbr "bit" means "bit", (and "b" is now just nothing but informal efficient shorthand for "bit" if I recall).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IEC_80000-13 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Byte https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Octet_(computing) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bit
Anyway, tor relay is network not disk, so I'd suggest megabits, or kilo/giga as scale appropriate. _______________________________________________ tor-relays mailing list tor-relays@lists.torproject.org https://lists.torproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tor-relays .
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participants (4)
-
grarpamp -
Karsten Loesing -
Sebastian Urbach -
usprey