Same happened here. Sent them their stuff they demanded and 2 days later my account was restored and they are “fine” with abuse. Cheers, Markus

On 8. Dec 2017, at 02:24, Tanous <tanous@protonmail.com> wrote:

it is Online.net.

Sent with ProtonMail <https://protonmail.com/> Secure Email.

...

-------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: [tor-relays] ISP is aking me to send a selfie holding my identity card Local Time: December 7, 2017 10:57 PM UTC Time: December 8, 2017 12:57 AM From: abuse@to-surf-and-protect.net To: tor-relays@lists.torproject.org

DigitalOcean demanded access to my FaceBook and Twitter account for verification … I do not own a Twitter or Facebook account …

Which ISP is it?

Cheers,

Markus

On 8. Dec 2017, at 01:54, Tanous tanous@protonmail.com <mailto:tanous@protonmail.com> wrote: Hi, Im running an exit relay for 116 days. Today i received an email from my ISP saying that my account has been locked for security reasons. They asked me to send a copy of my identity card and a selfie holding it. I found that very odd and i feel uncomfortable sending that data to them. Should i give up to running my exit relay and find another ISP? By the way, i had received an abuse complaint a day before, due to Brute force attempts. Best Regards, Tanous

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I do not think they will compromise and this is “normal” behaviour for a ISP from Europe. Online.net <http://online.net/> is cheap, fast and has good support. I would send them what they demanded. In Germany you have to send them a copy of your passport before they even get you a server. Got this with Hetzner. So, nothing to worry about. Cheers, Markus

On 8. Dec 2017, at 02:41, Tanous <tanous@protonmail.com> wrote:

Thanks Markus, I'll ask them if there is another way to unlock my account. In this situations i'm never certain if I have been hacked or something... Regards, Tanous

...

-------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: [tor-relays] ISP is aking me to send a selfie holding my identity card Local Time: December 7, 2017 11:26 PM UTC Time: December 8, 2017 1:26 AM From: abuse@to-surf-and-protect.net To: tor-relays@lists.torproject.org

Same happened here. Sent them their stuff they demanded and 2 days later my account was restored and they are “fine” with abuse.

Cheers,

Markus

...

On 8. Dec 2017, at 02:24, Tanous <tanous@protonmail.com <mailto:tanous@protonmail.com>> wrote:

it is Online.net <http://online.net/>.

Sent with ProtonMail <https://protonmail.com/> Secure Email.

...

-------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: [tor-relays] ISP is aking me to send a selfie holding my identity card Local Time: December 7, 2017 10:57 PM UTC Time: December 8, 2017 12:57 AM From: abuse@to-surf-and-protect.net <mailto:abuse@to-surf-and-protect.net> To: tor-relays@lists.torproject.org <mailto:tor-relays@lists.torproject.org>

DigitalOcean demanded access to my FaceBook and Twitter account for verification … I do not own a Twitter or Facebook account …

Which ISP is it?

Cheers,

Markus

On 8. Dec 2017, at 01:54, Tanous tanous@protonmail.com <mailto:tanous@protonmail.com> wrote: Hi, Im running an exit relay for 116 days. Today i received an email from my ISP saying that my account has been locked for security reasons. They asked me to send a copy of my identity card and a selfie holding it. I found that very odd and i feel uncomfortable sending that data to them. Should i give up to running my exit relay and find another ISP? By the way, i had received an abuse complaint a day before, due to Brute force attempts. Best Regards, Tanous

tor-relays mailing list tor-relays@lists.torproject.org <mailto:tor-relays@lists.torproject.org> https://lists.torproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tor-relays <https://lists.torproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tor-relays>

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Yes, that was the standard procedure. But, unfortunately, this time they answered that there is no other way to unlock my account. I will find another ISP to run an exit relay. Best Regards, Tanous Sent with [ProtonMail](https://protonmail.com) Secure Email.

-------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: [tor-relays] ISP is aking me to send a selfie holding my identity card Local Time: December 8, 2017 6:52 AM UTC Time: December 8, 2017 8:52 AM From: sebastian@urbach.org To: tor-relays@lists.torproject.org

Hi,

I'm a online.net customer for a few yeas (france) and never have been asked for an id card or social media account. Every few month or so i get a complaint regaring my fast Exit (500 mbit+). I have to respond within 48 or 72 hours (do no recall exactly) via their web console and everything is fine. If there is no reply within this timeframe they block the system.

Hope that helps.

Sincerely yours / M.f.G. / Sincères salutations

Sebastian Urbach

We can igenore reality, but we cannot ignore the consequences of ignoring reality.

Alissa Sinowjewna Rosenbaum (1905-1982)

Am 8. Dezember 2017 02:56:09 schrieb niftybunny abuse@to-surf-and-protect.net:

...

I do not think they will compromise and this is “normal” behaviour for a ISP from Europe. Online.net http://online.net/ is cheap, fast and has good support. I would send them what they demanded. In Germany you have to send them a copy of your passport before they even get you a server. Got this with Hetzner. So, nothing to worry about. Cheers, Markus

...

On 8. Dec 2017, at 02:41, Tanous tanous@protonmail.com wrote: Thanks Markus, I'll ask them if there is another way to unlock my account. In this situations i'm never certain if I have been hacked or something... Regards, Tanous

...

-------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: [tor-relays] ISP is aking me to send a selfie holding my identity card Local Time: December 7, 2017 11:26 PM UTC Time: December 8, 2017 1:26 AM From: abuse@to-surf-and-protect.net To: tor-relays@lists.torproject.org Same happened here. Sent them their stuff they demanded and 2 days later my account was restored and they are “fine” with abuse. Cheers, Markus

...

On 8. Dec 2017, at 02:24, Tanous <tanous@protonmail.com mailto:tanous@protonmail.com> wrote: it is Online.net http://online.net/. Sent with ProtonMail https://protonmail.com/ Secure Email.

...

-------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: [tor-relays] ISP is aking me to send a selfie holding my identity card Local Time: December 7, 2017 10:57 PM UTC Time: December 8, 2017 12:57 AM From: abuse@to-surf-and-protect.net mailto:abuse@to-surf-and-protect.net To: tor-relays@lists.torproject.org mailto:tor-relays@lists.torproject.org DigitalOcean demanded access to my FaceBook and Twitter account for verification … I do not own a Twitter or Facebook account … Which ISP is it? Cheers, Markus On 8. Dec 2017, at 01:54, Tanous tanous@protonmail.com mailto:tanous@protonmail.com wrote: Hi, Im running an exit relay for 116 days. Today i received an email from my ISP saying that my account has been locked for security reasons. They asked me to send a copy of my identity card and a selfie holding it. I found that very odd and i feel uncomfortable sending that data to them. Should i give up to running my exit relay and find another ISP? By the way, i had received an abuse complaint a day before, due to Brute force attempts. Best Regards, Tanous tor-relays mailing list tor-relays@lists.torproject.org mailto:tor-relays@lists.torproject.org https://lists.torproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tor-relays https://lists.torproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tor-relays tor-relays mailing list tor-relays@lists.torproject.org mailto:tor-relays@lists.torproject.org https://lists.torproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tor-relays https://lists.torproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tor-relays

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grarpamp <grarpamp@gmail.com> wrote:

...

Sent them their stuff they demanded and 2 days later my account was restored and they are ?fine? with abuse.

Because doing KYC and Gestapo on operators over "bad" traffic that you're already not responsible for somehow magically turns it into "good" traffic that you are responsible for. Lol, what a joke. What they're fine with is abusing rights with a boot from above.

...

So, nothing to worry about.

The entire thing is something to worry about.

On that issue, we are in complete agreement, I think. What it means is that the people in those countries are already being denied their rights. Their governments are using a different method or set of methods from the ones the U.S. government is using, but it still equates to tyranny. Scott Bennett, Comm. ASMELG, CFIAG ********************************************************************** * Internet: bennett at sdf.org *xor* bennett at freeshell.org * *--------------------------------------------------------------------* * "A well regulated and disciplined militia, is at all times a good * * objection to the introduction of that bane of all free governments * * -- a standing army." * * -- Gov. John Hancock, New York Journal, 28 January 1790 * **********************************************************************

I have no experience with Hetzner, but no ISP in Germany (or elsewhere) has ever asked me for a copy of my passport. I'd rather spend my money elsewhere. (For German readers: it's illegal to create photocopies of the latest generation of ID cards, except for government agencies, banks and such, AFAIK.) Kind regards, Alexander --- PGP Key: https://dietrich.cx/pgp | 0x52FA4EE1722D54EB On 2017-12-08 02:46, niftybunny wrote:

I do not think they will compromise and this is "normal" behaviour for a ISP from Europe. Online.net [1] is cheap, fast and has good support. I would send them what they demanded. In Germany you have to send them a copy of your passport before they even get you a server. Got this with Hetzner. So, nothing to worry about.

Cheers,

Markus

On 8. Dec 2017, at 02:41, Tanous <tanous@protonmail.com> wrote:

Thanks Markus, I'll ask them if there is another way to unlock my account. In this situations i'm never certain if I have been hacked or something... Regards, Tanous

-------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: [tor-relays] ISP is aking me to send a selfie holding my identity card Local Time: December 7, 2017 11:26 PM UTC Time: December 8, 2017 1:26 AM From: abuse@to-surf-and-protect.net To: tor-relays@lists.torproject.org

Same happened here. Sent them their stuff they demanded and 2 days later my account was restored and they are "fine" with abuse.

Cheers,

Markus

On 8. Dec 2017, at 02:24, Tanous <tanous@protonmail.com> wrote:

it is Online.net [2].

Sent with ProtonMail [3] Secure Email.

-------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: [tor-relays] ISP is aking me to send a selfie holding my identity card Local Time: December 7, 2017 10:57 PM UTC Time: December 8, 2017 12:57 AM From: abuse@to-surf-and-protect.net To: tor-relays@lists.torproject.org

DigitalOcean demanded access to my FaceBook and Twitter account for verification ... I do not own a Twitter or Facebook account ...

Which ISP is it?

Cheers,

Markus

On 8. Dec 2017, at 01:54, Tanous tanous@protonmail.com wrote:

Hi, Im running an exit relay for 116 days. Today i received an email from my ISP saying that my account has been locked for security reasons. They asked me to send a copy of my identity card and a selfie holding it. I found that very odd and i feel uncomfortable sending that data to them. Should i give up to running my exit relay and find another ISP? By the way, i had received an abuse complaint a day before, due to Brute force attempts. Best Regards, Tanous

-------------------------

tor-relays mailing list tor-relays@lists.torproject.org https://lists.torproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tor-relays

-------------------------

tor-relays mailing list tor-relays@lists.torproject.org https://lists.torproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tor-relays

_______________________________________________ tor-relays mailing list tor-relays@lists.torproject.org https://lists.torproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tor-relays _______________________________________________ tor-relays mailing list tor-relays@lists.torproject.org https://lists.torproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tor-relays _______________________________________________ tor-relays mailing list tor-relays@lists.torproject.org https://lists.torproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tor-relays Links: ------ [1] http://Online.net [2] http://online.net/ [3] https://protonmail.com/

One more thing … http://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/tkg_2004/__95.html <http://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/tkg_2004/__95.html> The law says: (4) Der Diensteanbieter kann im Zusammenhang mit dem Begründen und dem Ändern des Vertragsverhältnisses sowie dem Erbringen von Telekommunikationsdiensten die Vorlage eines amtlichen Ausweises verlangen, wenn dies zur Überprüfung der Angaben des Teilnehmers erforderlich ist. We have a german law that explicit states that an ISP can demand a copy of your passport. But surely its highly illegal besides the law explicit allows it … whatever … Markus

On 8. Dec 2017, at 13:24, niftybunny <abuse@to-surf-and-protect.net> wrote:

...

On 8. Dec 2017, at 10:23, Alexander Dietrich <alexander@dietrich.cx <mailto:alexander@dietrich.cx>> wrote:

I have no experience with Hetzner, but no ISP in Germany (or elsewhere) has ever asked me for a copy of my passport. I'd rather spend my money elsewhere.

(For German readers: it's illegal to create photocopies of the latest generation of ID cards, except for government agencies, banks and such, AFAIK.

No its is not and its normal with banks, ISPs, web hosting etc

proof: https://www.datenschutzbeauftragter-info.de/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/Perso... <https://www.datenschutzbeauftragter-info.de/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/Personalausweis-kopieren-Stellungnahme-BMI.pdf>

Look it up and stop starting rumours …

Markus

...

Kind regards, Alexander

--- PGP Key: https://dietrich.cx/pgp <https://dietrich.cx/pgp> | 0x52FA4EE1722D54EB

On 2017-12-08 02:46, niftybunny wrote:

...

I do not think they will compromise and this is "normal" behaviour for a ISP from Europe. Online.net <http://online.net/> is cheap, fast and has good support. I would send them what they demanded. In Germany you have to send them a copy of your passport before they even get you a server. Got this with Hetzner. So, nothing to worry about.

Cheers,

Markus

...

On 8. Dec 2017, at 02:41, Tanous <tanous@protonmail.com <mailto:tanous@protonmail.com>> wrote:

Thanks Markus, I'll ask them if there is another way to unlock my account. In this situations i'm never certain if I have been hacked or something... Regards, Tanous

-------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: [tor-relays] ISP is aking me to send a selfie holding my identity card Local Time: December 7, 2017 11:26 PM UTC Time: December 8, 2017 1:26 AM From: abuse@to-surf-and-protect.net <mailto:abuse@to-surf-and-protect.net> To: tor-relays@lists.torproject.org <mailto:tor-relays@lists.torproject.org>

Same happened here. Sent them their stuff they demanded and 2 days later my account was restored and they are "fine" with abuse.

Cheers,

Markus

...

On 8. Dec 2017, at 02:24, Tanous <tanous@protonmail.com <mailto:tanous@protonmail.com>> wrote:

it is Online.net <http://online.net/>.

Sent with ProtonMail <https://protonmail.com/> Secure Email.

-------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: [tor-relays] ISP is aking me to send a selfie holding my identity card Local Time: December 7, 2017 10:57 PM UTC Time: December 8, 2017 12:57 AM From: abuse@to-surf-and-protect.net <mailto:abuse@to-surf-and-protect.net> To: tor-relays@lists.torproject.org <mailto:tor-relays@lists.torproject.org>

DigitalOcean demanded access to my FaceBook and Twitter account for verification ... I do not own a Twitter or Facebook account ...

Which ISP is it?

Cheers,

Markus

...

On 8. Dec 2017, at 01:54, Tanous tanous@protonmail.com <mailto:tanous@protonmail.com> wrote: Hi, Im running an exit relay for 116 days. Today i received an email from my ISP saying that my account has been locked for security reasons. They asked me to send a copy of my identity card and a selfie holding it. I found that very odd and i feel uncomfortable sending that data to them. Should i give up to running my exit relay and find another ISP? By the way, i had received an abuse complaint a day before, due to Brute force attempts. Best Regards, Tanous tor-relays mailing list tor-relays@lists.torproject.org <mailto:tor-relays@lists.torproject.org> https://lists.torproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tor-relays <https://lists.torproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tor-relays> tor-relays mailing list tor-relays@lists.torproject.org <mailto:tor-relays@lists.torproject.org> https://lists.torproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tor-relays <https://lists.torproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tor-relays>

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---

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On 08.12.2017 02:46, niftybunny wrote:

I do not think they will compromise and this is “normal” behaviour for a ISP from Europe.

I strongly disagree to that being "normal" in any shape or form. I have rented servers with several European hosters and have not once been asked for ID.

In Germany you have to send them a copy of your passport before they even get you a server. Got this with Hetzner.

No, you don't have to. What German law do you think would require it? If you made this experience, in contrast to anybody I know in the business, I would consider this extraordinary. As for Hetzner in particular, neither me nor any of my customers who work with Hetzner were ever asked for ID, let alone a photo.

So, nothing to worry about.

I would worry about it! -Ralph

On 8. Dec 2017, at 14:15, Ralph Seichter <m16+tor@monksofcool.net> wrote:

On 08.12.2017 02:46, niftybunny wrote:

...

I do not think they will compromise and this is “normal” behaviour for a ISP from Europe.

I strongly disagree to that being "normal" in any shape or form. I have rented servers with several European hosters and have not once been asked for ID.

...

In Germany you have to send them a copy of your passport before they even get you a server. Got this with Hetzner.

No, you don't have to. What German law do you think would require it?

http://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/tkg_2004/__95.html <http://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/tkg_2004/__95.html> This law. Read it, learn from it. Markus

Yes, can. You can skip it if you want but that doesnt mean that they will. “I never had to show it” proves ignorance and I posted the facts. You read it and now you know that legal. You learned something today! Congratulations! Markus As a baby I pissed in a church. I was never in jail for this, thats why it is legal to shit/piss in churches. Your logic.

On 8. Dec 2017, at 14:43, Ralph Seichter <m16+tor@monksofcool.net> wrote:

On 08.12.2017 14:29, niftybunny wrote:

...

...

...

In Germany you have to send them a copy of your passport before they even get you a server. Got this with Hetzner.

No, you don't have to. What German law do you think would require it?

http://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/tkg_2004/__95.html This law. Read it, learn from it.

How about you cut down on the attitude, kiddo? I asked my question as I genuinely wanted to know the particular law in question, and I don't see any reason for your incongruous snark.

Also, the law states that the service provider *can* (not must!) ask for ID if it is necessary for verification. Like I said, I have never been asked, nor have my customers, so I still don't consider it normal.

-Ralph _______________________________________________ tor-relays mailing list tor-relays@lists.torproject.org https://lists.torproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tor-relays

I thought about the baby to not complete shut down your mind. Anyway: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anecdotal_evidence <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anecdotal_evidence> Where only one or a few anecdotes are presented, there is a larger chance that they may be unreliable due to cherry-picked <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cherry_picking_(fallacy)> or otherwise non-representative <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sampling_(statistics)> samples of typical cases.[1] <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anecdotal_evidence#cite_note-weiten-1>[2] <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anecdotal_evidence#cite_note-2> Similarly, psychologists have found that due to cognitive bias <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cognitive_bias> people are more likely to remember notable or unusual examples rather than typical examples.[3] <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anecdotal_evidence#cite_note-3> Thus, even when accurate, anecdotal evidence is not necessarily representative of a typical experience. Accurate determination of whether an anecdote is "typical" requires statistical <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Statistical> evidence.[4] <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anecdotal_evidence#cite_note-4> Misuse of anecdotal evidence is an informal fallacy <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Informal_fallacy> and is sometimes referred to as the "person who" fallacy ("I know a person who..."; "I know of a case where..." etc.) which places undue weight on experiences of close peers which may not be typical. Compare with hasty generalization <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hasty_generalization>. Mail me when you are smarter than a 5 year old. Markus PS: But hey, copies of passports are forbidden in Germany besides our Government says there is no law against it. And companies will NEVER ask for a passport copy besides there is a fucking law that states they are allowed to. But they, that all is VERY VERY unusual and you are in a great danger! Because Ramstein and the Gestapo and other things. Welcome to Lala Land!

On 8. Dec 2017, at 14:57, Ralph Seichter <m16+tor@monksofcool.net> wrote:

On 08.12.2017 14:48, niftybunny wrote:

...

As a baby I pissed in a church. I was never in jail for this, thats why it is legal to shit/piss in churches. Your logic.

So now you're saying it is illegal for babies to have a wee in church, and they might be jailed for it? :-))) Also, if the difference between "legal" and "normal" eludes you, you may want to ask an adult.

-Ralph _______________________________________________ tor-relays mailing list tor-relays@lists.torproject.org https://lists.torproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tor-relays

yeah, that wouldnt happen 10 years ago. The world got paranoid Sent with [ProtonMail](https://protonmail.com) Secure Email.

-------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: [tor-relays] ISP is aking me to send a selfie holding my identity card Local Time: 10 December 2017 9:40 AM UTC Time: 10 December 2017 08:40 From: petrusko@riseup.net To: tor-relays@lists.torproject.org

OVH = French company... Damn, they ask this for renting a server ? Like someone who wants to buy a weapon !! (in this country + an additional hunter card...)

2020 we will need a "Good web citizen" digital card to rent a server... and adding a software running behind to prove we are good people, using our computer for good things ;)

Le 08/12/2017 à 17:21, Anders Burmeister a écrit :

...

I rent 4 servers at OVH, They asked for copy of passport and some government letter to prove my name and adress. I sent them (encrypted of course), got my 4 servers, and they run as a charm. /anders

Petrusko C0BF 2184 4A77 4A18 90E9 F72C B3CA E665 EBE2 3AE5

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