What if my favorite online store website blacklists all Tor Relay IP addresses?
It seems that at least two 'normal' online store websites that I visit from time to time have apparently decided to block my IP address which I am also using for a non-exit Tor relay. I have had extended discussions with one of them and they considered unblocking my IP address to be a risk greater than the lost income (US $160/year revenue) was worth. They suggested switching to a different IP address, which was like pulling hens' teeth from my ISP. To do that, I had to have a technician visit my house and install a new modem because they do not have a person who understands tech talk available for ordinary users, and I couldn't get sufficiently elevated in their support hierarchy. The supposedly dynamic IP address that I get from them hardly ever changes, probably because I am buying U-verse television service from them. Now, after a couple of months, the "new" IP address is also blocked. My question is this. What if it becomes common practice for commercial entities such as online stores to block all IP addresses that they find on lists of Tor relays such as <https://www.dan.me.uk/tornodes> or the official Tor metrics data? That list is updated every half hour, includes all nodes, and is not limited to exit nodes. It currently lists 4438 nodes. That is a manageable size for a blacklist, but it could represent tens or hundreds of thousands of clients. Wouldn't this eventually either cripple the Tor network or generally discourage Tor clients that can no longer buy products online from store XYZ through the Tor network? David C
I'm in the same boat: for example yelp.com and TDBank North are blocking us. On Sun, Aug 25, 2013 at 2:30 PM, David Carlson <david.carlson.417@gmail.com>wrote:
It seems that at least two 'normal' online store websites that I visit from time to time have apparently decided to block my IP address which I am also using for a non-exit Tor relay. I have had extended discussions with one of them and they considered unblocking my IP address to be a risk greater than the lost income (US $160/year revenue) was worth. They suggested switching to a different IP address, which was like pulling hens' teeth from my ISP. To do that, I had to have a technician visit my house and install a new modem because they do not have a person who understands tech talk available for ordinary users, and I couldn't get sufficiently elevated in their support hierarchy. The supposedly dynamic IP address that I get from them hardly ever changes, probably because I am buying U-verse television service from them. Now, after a couple of months, the "new" IP address is also blocked.
My question is this. What if it becomes common practice for commercial entities such as online stores to block all IP addresses that they find on lists of Tor relays such as <https://www.dan.me.uk/tornodes> or the official Tor metrics data? That list is updated every half hour, includes all nodes, and is not limited to exit nodes. It currently lists 4438 nodes. That is a manageable size for a blacklist, but it could represent tens or hundreds of thousands of clients.
Wouldn't this eventually either cripple the Tor network or generally discourage Tor clients that can no longer buy products online from store XYZ through the Tor network?
David C _______________________________________________ tor-relays mailing list tor-relays@lists.torproject.org https://lists.torproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tor-relays
On 8/25/2013 2:41 PM, Dave Lahr wrote:
I'm in the same boat: for example yelp.com <http://yelp.com> and TDBank North are blocking us.
On Sun, Aug 25, 2013 at 2:30 PM, David Carlson <david.carlson.417@gmail.com <mailto:david.carlson.417@gmail.com>> wrote:
It seems that at least two 'normal' online store websites that I visit from time to time have apparently decided to block my IP address which I am also using for a non-exit Tor relay. I have had extended discussions with one of them and they considered unblocking my IP address to be a risk greater than the lost income (US $160/year revenue) was worth. They suggested switching to a different IP address, which was like pulling hens' teeth from my ISP. To do that, I had to have a technician visit my house and install a new modem because they do not have a person who understands tech talk available for ordinary users, and I couldn't get sufficiently elevated in their support hierarchy. The supposedly dynamic IP address that I get from them hardly ever changes, probably because I am buying U-verse television service from them. Now, after a couple of months, the "new" IP address is also blocked.
My question is this. What if it becomes common practice for commercial entities such as online stores to block all IP addresses that they find on lists of Tor relays such as <https://www.dan.me.uk/tornodes> or the official Tor metrics data? That list is updated every half hour, includes all nodes, and is not limited to exit nodes. It currently lists 4438 nodes. That is a manageable size for a blacklist, but it could represent tens or hundreds of thousands of clients.
Wouldn't this eventually either cripple the Tor network or generally discourage Tor clients that can no longer buy products online from store XYZ through the Tor network?
David C _______________________________________________ tor-relays mailing list tor-relays@lists.torproject.org <mailto:tor-relays@lists.torproject.org> https://lists.torproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tor-relays
_______________________________________________ tor-relays mailing list tor-relays@lists.torproject.org https://lists.torproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tor-relays In the short term, it is possible to to circumvent these practices by using one or more of several different methods, but informing the online store that they are shooting themselves in the foot is not one of them. After all, they are experts and we are just ignoramuses, even if we know what an IP address is. Also, client tactics like going to a public hotspot is either not an option for someone who wants the Tor anonymity, or problematic at best if all or nearly all Tor node IP addresses are blocked at the vendor end.
That is why I asked the general question.
participants (2)
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Dave Lahr -
David Carlson