hi, On 1/3/19 10:25 AM, Nathan Freitas wrote:

On 1/2/19 10:12 PM, Matt Traudt wrote:

...

Something called TOR Browser PRO by "Tor Powered Onion Browser" on the ... iOS App Store?

https://old.reddit.com/r/deepweb/comments/ac11y6/how_trustworthy_is_this_was...

Yes, there are a number of those, and it would be great for Tor Project, Inc / Corp legal to send some letters. The goal is not just to enforce trademark, but to reduce the amount of unaudited, closed source "Powered by Tor" claiming apps that are basically skinned forks of the legit Onion Browser project.

sorry, I just realized I only replied to Matt. We do send letters, Jon helps us with that. And I fwd this email to him to take care of this one as well. cheers, isabela

I did see a number of unauthorized t-shirts and hoodies online yesterday as well. I’ll add them to my list.

We send the letters to these apps so the snake-oil ones are pulled and the ones that are legit, are more clear that they're not affiliated or endorsed by the tor project, as there's a good chance of harming the users who seek privacy and anonymity. But why are we sending letters who print Tor tshirts and hoodies? Are we gonna do the same with stickers too? I wonder what's the logic behind that... -- Nima 0X58C4B928A3E218F6 | @mrphs "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it" --Evelyn Beatrice Hall

On 1/4/19 3:08 AM, emma peel wrote:

Nima Fatemi:

...

...

I did see a number of unauthorized t-shirts and hoodies online yesterday as well. I’ll add them to my list.

We send the letters to these apps so the snake-oil ones are pulled and the ones that are legit, are more clear that they're not affiliated or endorsed by the tor project, as there's a good chance of harming the users who seek privacy and anonymity.

But why are we sending letters who print Tor tshirts and hoodies? Are we gonna do the same with stickers too? I wonder what's the logic behind that...

I agree with Nima here. I would not enforce trademark protections on hoodies or t-shirts, only on fishy software, or something that may contain malicious software...

It's true Tor's primary products and services aren't t-shirts. If someone is using the logo on a shirt in a way that celebrates the Tor project, I'd agree that's fine. If they're using it to make false associations that tarnish the mark, or pretending that their sales support Tor without in fact sending Tor money, we should complain. --Wendy

Stickers... well, I rather have our fans doing them, as they are more an expense than an income stream.

Bootlegged Tor t-shirts are also spreading our message, and could eventually become a donation. They are also made by local shops usually, so the model is more decentralized.

In Tails we encourage people to make Tails t-shirts, sell them, recover the costs and give us a little.

_______________________________________________ tor-project mailing list tor-project@lists.torproject.org https://lists.torproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tor-project

Got it. I’ll no longer send these letters to trademark violations in regards to swag unless it is used maliciously. Where I was coming from was centered around lost revenue. Tor swag belongs to our donors, relay operators, volunteers etc… Allowing anyone off the street print Tor related swag is just lost revenue and takes away from the “street cred” value of the coveted Tor t-shirt. Thanks, Jon

On Jan 4, 2019, at 1:59 AM, isabela <isabela@torproject.org> wrote:

Hello everyone,

On 1/4/19 4:09 AM, Wendy Seltzer wrote:

...

On 1/4/19 3:08 AM, emma peel wrote:

...

Nima Fatemi:

...

...

I did see a number of unauthorized t-shirts and hoodies online yesterday as well. I’ll add them to my list.

We send the letters to these apps so the snake-oil ones are pulled and the ones that are legit, are more clear that they're not affiliated or endorsed by the tor project, as there's a good chance of harming the users who seek privacy and anonymity.

But why are we sending letters who print Tor tshirts and hoodies? Are we gonna do the same with stickers too? I wonder what's the logic behind that...

I agree with Nima here. I would not enforce trademark protections on hoodies or t-shirts, only on fishy software, or something that may contain malicious software...

It's true Tor's primary products and services aren't t-shirts. If someone is using the logo on a shirt in a way that celebrates the Tor project, I'd agree that's fine.

If they're using it to make false associations that tarnish the mark, or pretending that their sales support Tor without in fact sending Tor money, we should complain.

--Wendy

Afaik we haven't send any letter to people regarding shirts, stickers, hoodies yet. I agree with the above and I *think* (haven't spoke with Jon yet) where Jon was coming from was just the fact of 'use of the logo without permission' but I believe with the explanations above that I agree with he now understands better where is the line here :) so we won't be sending any letter regarding this type of usage of our logo.

thanks! isabela _______________________________________________ tor-project mailing list tor-project@lists.torproject.org <mailto:tor-project@lists.torproject.org> https://lists.torproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tor-project <https://lists.torproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tor-project>

On Fri, 4 Jan 2019, isabela wrote:

Hello everyone,

On 1/4/19 4:09 AM, Wendy Seltzer wrote:

...

On 1/4/19 3:08 AM, emma peel wrote:

...

Nima Fatemi:

...

...

I did see a number of unauthorized t-shirts and hoodies online yesterday as well. I’ll add them to my list.

We send the letters to these apps so the snake-oil ones are pulled and the ones that are legit, are more clear that they're not affiliated or endorsed by the tor project, as there's a good chance of harming the users who seek privacy and anonymity.

But why are we sending letters who print Tor tshirts and hoodies? Are we gonna do the same with stickers too? I wonder what's the logic behind that...

I agree with Nima here. I would not enforce trademark protections on hoodies or t-shirts, only on fishy software, or something that may contain malicious software...

It's true Tor's primary products and services aren't t-shirts. If someone is using the logo on a shirt in a way that celebrates the Tor project, I'd agree that's fine.

If they're using it to make false associations that tarnish the mark, or pretending that their sales support Tor without in fact sending Tor money, we should complain.

--Wendy

Afaik we haven't send any letter to people regarding shirts, stickers, hoodies yet. I agree with the above and I *think* (haven't spoke with Jon yet) where Jon was coming from was just the fact of 'use of the logo without permission' but I believe with the explanations above that I agree with he now understands better where is the line here :) so we won't be sending any letter regarding this type of usage of our logo.

I just had a relay operator ask if he could get the logo printed on some clothing to give to his friends. I told him yes, with Wendy's caveats. His local t-shirt shop isn't willing to do it without official authorization from us. Thoughts? Is this a thing we want to get into as active participants? Or just something we won't move to crack down on if it happens? -Kat