Hello,
While at Primavera Hacker Tor workshop I realized that the listinfo global-south text (https://lists.torproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/global-south) is on English and it wasn't that useful for some participants.
It makes sense to change the language to both Castellano and Portuguese, I can do this when I have the moderation list credentials.
Cheers, ~Vasilis
Hi there,
we can also ask any of the current admins to do it. I just want to remember that this list is not just for folks in countries that speaks spanish and pt tho. so if we start adding descriptions in other languages we should be more inclusive because the south of the Equator line is quite big :)
On 12/3/17 00:29, Vasilis wrote:
Hello,
While at Primavera Hacker Tor workshop I realized that the listinfo global-south text (https://lists.torproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/global-south) is on English and it wasn't that useful for some participants.
It makes sense to change the language to both Castellano and Portuguese, I can do this when I have the moderation list credentials.
Cheers, ~Vasilis
global-south mailing list global-south@lists.torproject.org https://lists.torproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/global-south
Hi, this is a general thinning about ML not pointing to anyone in specific. ----------------------------------------------------------------------
I think we probably need to start to think about something more local-oriented, then.
Maybe a Tor Local Group (TLG)
I think TLG may help local tor community from the bottom (and not from the global-north), directly from the people who are organizing this privacy and hacker events.
Many of them are very skilled and just want to participate, but they don't speak english, maybe they understand it, but are not completely ok to write in a eng-ML.
So, maybe this sounds strange.. but a list where people can speak freely in Portuguese, Spanish or Portuñol makes things easier, because we can write no problem if wrong and there's no need to write a foreign language which may be a limit for someone.
So, what is this ML global-south ? is a list of ppl from US/EU interested of people who are not US/EU ?
great, we can do you a newsletter every month if so :)
but, now please, let's think about how to empower local communities and find the right tool for it. I think a list may help, a list where we can speak portuñol. Let me know if I'm wrong, but it seems local groups are asking for this.
bye
Hello,
isabela:
we can also ask any of the current admins to do it. I just want to remember that this list is not just for folks in countries that speaks spanish and pt tho. so if we start adding descriptions in other languages we should be more inclusive because the south of the Equator line is quite big :)
Agreed! We should perhaps add descriptions in multiple languages, since almost sure the people under "the south of the Equator line" they most probably don't speak English.
The need to add translation arised when people asked ne in which fields of the mailing list they should add their email address and what do they need to do next in order to subscribe to this list.
Cheers, ~Vasilis
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA512
Vasilis:
Hello,
isabela:
we can also ask any of the current admins to do it. I just want to remember that this list is not just for folks in countries that speaks spanish and pt tho. so if we start adding descriptions in other languages we should be more inclusive because the south of the Equator line is quite big :)
Agreed! We should perhaps add descriptions in multiple languages, since almost sure the people under "the south of the Equator line" they most probably don't speak English.
The need to add translation arised when people asked ne in which fields of the mailing list they should add their email address and what do they need to do next in order to subscribe to this list.
I'm ccing Colin to see if we can get lists.torproject.org translated.
Cheers, ~Vasilis
_______________________________________________ global-south mailing list global-south@lists.torproject.org https://lists.torproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/global-south
On 2017-12-04 09:50 PM, Alison Macrina wrote:
Vasilis:
Hello,
isabela:
we can also ask any of the current admins to do it. I just want to remember that this list is not just for folks in countries that speaks spanish and pt tho. so if we start adding descriptions in other languages we should be more inclusive because the south of the Equator line is quite big :)
Agreed! We should perhaps add descriptions in multiple languages, since almost sure the people under "the south of the Equator line" they most probably don't speak English.
The need to add translation arised when people asked ne in which fields of the mailing list they should add their email address and what do they need to do next in order to subscribe to this list.
I'm ccing Colin to see if we can get lists.torproject.org translated.
Hi all,
I can definitely get these translated, however I'm not sure if there is a clean way to display translated descriptions with mailman (the list software).
If one of the people handling mailman knows of a way to do this, I'm happy to get the strings on Transifex for translation!
On 12/4/17 20:55, Vasilis wrote:
The need to add translation arised when people asked ne in which fields of the mailing list they should add their email address and what do they need to do next in order to subscribe to this list.
Ok, mailman UI is already translated:
"Multi-lingual support: list web pages and email notices can be in any of nearly two dozen supported language, configurable per-site, per-list, and per-user"
But the thing is the way mailman works, is when you are creating a list you tell which language it should use. And it will have the sign up form in that language and also all notification emails.
It doesn't let you to pick a language on the fly from a drop-down menu or something.
So don't need to translate the UI, but to let users pick what language they want to see it might be a little difficult. Because they actually need to do it for their account, which means they need to read it English first.
Unless we start to migrate people from this list to language specific ones or region specific ones.
Cheers, isabela
isabela dijo [Mon, Dec 04, 2017 at 08:45:51AM -0500]:
Hi there,
we can also ask any of the current admins to do it. I just want to remember that this list is not just for folks in countries that speaks spanish and pt tho. so if we start adding descriptions in other languages we should be more inclusive because the south of the Equator line is quite big :)
Well, the list/working group should then first work on its scope. I do not think that a "Global South" definition matches "South of the Equator". I also don't think a "South of the Equator" list makes _any_ sense. Oh, and South of the Equator we would need to have English as a first-class language anyways (most of Southern African countries, Australia, New Zealand, and many of Oceania's countries...). Indonesia is definitively _not_ a small country (has the same population as Brazil), but is located just on the Equator... And, of course, Southern African countries have many local Bantu- and Zulu-derived (as well as non-related languages, such as Xhosa languages that should be considered)...
There are many issues in common, yes, to countries South of the Equator. But cultural divides are just too deep; at least Latin America has a shared culture that allows closeness (such as what we just saw this weekend in Chile, with people seamlessly working together from Chile, Argentina, Brazil, Peru, Ecuador, Mexico, and don't know if others).
When I was to DebConf in South Africa last year, we had some (although few) participants from Zimbabwe, Swaziland, Botswana — I don't dare to say there is a "pan-Africanity", but it could at least make sense. And, again, for DebConf in 2018 (to be held in Taiwan) we are expecting to receive participation from East Asian countries.
There are several world regions that naturally "flock" together. While a "Global South" working group has a nice ring to it, it excludes and splits needlessly based on strict-geographical lines, and becomes an unnatural line.
Again, I would suggest the currently active group to coalesce as a "LatAm" group or something like that.
we can also ask any of the current admins to do it. I just want to remember that this list is not just for folks in countries that speaks spanish and pt tho. so if we start adding descriptions in other languages we should be more inclusive because the south of the Equator line is quite big :)
[...]
There are many issues in common, yes, to countries South of the Equator. But cultural divides are just too deep; at least Latin America has a shared culture that allows closeness (such as what we just saw this weekend in Chile, with people seamlessly working together from Chile, Argentina, Brazil, Peru, Ecuador, Mexico, and don't know if others).
[...]
Again, I would suggest the currently active group to coalesce as a "LatAm" group or something like that.
I tend to agree with what samba and gunnar have mentioned. I think we have enough people from latin america to have a separate list/channel.
The two days of primavera people mentioned the need for documentation in spanish. In one of the sessions there was a discussion in english and some people mentioned they lost the track of it, and some even left.
Of course, some information and coordination could be done in gs/whatever, but general discussion should happen elsewhere, imo.
That said, i'm not expert in mailing lists. My "enough people" could be very different for someone with more experience.
saludos.
global-south mailing list global-south@lists.torproject.org https://lists.torproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/global-south
On 12/5/17 15:04, ilv@torproject.org wrote:
we can also ask any of the current admins to do it. I just want to remember that this list is not just for folks in countries that speaks spanish and pt tho. so if we start adding descriptions in other languages we should be more inclusive because the south of the Equator line is quite big :)
[...]
There are many issues in common, yes, to countries South of the Equator. But cultural divides are just too deep; at least Latin America has a shared culture that allows closeness (such as what we just saw this weekend in Chile, with people seamlessly working together from Chile, Argentina, Brazil, Peru, Ecuador, Mexico, and don't know if others).
[...]
I would like to clarify that I said that just as an expression, not necessary as the 'classification of this list'. Just to say that there should be more languages than just Spanish and Portuguese if we are to translate the "global-south" list.
Again, I would suggest the currently active group to coalesce as a "LatAm" group or something like that.
I tend to agree with what samba and gunnar have mentioned. I think we have enough people from latin america to have a separate list/channel.
The two days of primavera people mentioned the need for documentation in spanish. In one of the sessions there was a discussion in english and some people mentioned they lost the track of it, and some even left.
Of course, some information and coordination could be done in gs/whatever, but general discussion should happen elsewhere, imo.
That said, i'm not expert in mailing lists. My "enough people" could be very different for someone with more experience.
saludos.
Yes this makes sense. We actually entered this discussion a few times during the montreal meeting. And if I recall it correctly we just didn't do this before Primavera Hacker because we wanted to have the need to do it before going out creating language/region lists without having people to use them :)
So I guess now we are entering the phase we wanted and I don't see a reason why not have a list like LatAm.
cheers, isabela
global-south@lists.torproject.org
-
Alison Macrina -
Colin Childs -
Gunnar Wolf -
ilv＠torproject.org -
isabela -
samba -
Vasilis