On Mon, Dec 26, 2022 at 01:43:32PM -0500, Cecylia Bocovich wrote:
On 12/26/22 00:55, John Selbie wrote:
While the Snowflake project has good intentions, it doesn't appear to take my hosting costs into consideration. I'm hoping we can have a good discussion on the following:
- How many snowflake clients and proxies are active and how many STUN
requests are each generating towards stunprotocol.org http://stunprotocol.org? Do we think the entire worldwide usage of Snowflake could be responsible for millions of STUN queries to stunprotocol.org http://stunprotocol.org per day?
- Expected number of DNS queries (it's a 3-day TTL on these DNS
entries, so it blows my mind that there are so many redundant requests). Does Pion or any other part of the Snowflake code tend to go direct to the namespace server itself?
- Removing stun.stunprotocol.org http://stun.stunprotocol.org as the
default STUN server.
OR...
- Alternatively, I'm always open to accepting donations to help run the
service costs of stunprotocol.org http://stunprotocol.org. I'm definitely not getting rich running this thing.
Thank you for reaching out. This is exactly the right place to discuss this. This was an oversight on my part not to reach out to you as the operator of our configured default STUN server and I'm very sorry for the unexpected increased costs. We can absolutely remove stunprotocol.org as the default.
Likewise, thanks for reaching out. Snowflake has grown faster then expected, in part because of a few crisis situations when it was one of few unblocked communications channels. Load on STUN servers was not much of a consideration in the early days when the system was small, but clearly it's something we need to think about now.
- I would definitely believe the amount of snowflake traffic to
stunprotocol.org to be this high. We have over 100,000 proxies. According to recent metrics[0], there are around 8 million matches a day and therefore that many WebRTC ICE gathering requests coming from just the proxies. The clients use a randomized subset of configured STUN servers, so the number is slightly different but it's safe to say they are also generating a few million STUN queries to your server.
- I'm not sure about the DNS queries. It also surprises me that there are
this many, I'll open an issue to investigate why.
My guess is that the proxies that fail to cache DNS are standalone proxies (and to a lesser extent clients). The Go standard library may or may not cache DNS, depending on how it was compiled and possibly even on runtime conditions.
https://pkg.go.dev/net#hdr-Name_Resolution On Unix systems, the resolver has two options for resolving names. It can use a pure Go resolver that sends DNS requests directly to the servers listed in /etc/resolv.conf, or it can use a cgo-based resolver that calls C library routines such as getaddrinfo and getnameinfo. ... The resolver decision can be overridden by setting the netdns value of the GODEBUG environment variable to go or cgo ... or while building the Go source tree by setting the netgo or netcgo build tag.
When I run `GODEBUG=netdns=1 ./proxy`, it says go package net: dynamic selection of DNS resolver Perhaps we should document `go build -tags netcgo` as the way to build the proxy, in order to use the OS resolver which is more likely to cache response records.
Now for immediate next steps. I've sent an email to people internally to start the process of looking into sending some funds your way for the costs. We might not get an answer until after everyone is back at work in January. In the meantime:
- I'd like to remove stunprotocol.org as the default STUN server for the
proxies. The reason we added to our list in the first place was because it implements RFC 5780 which we are using on the client side to determine NAT matching and filtering types (thank you for this implementation BTW!). The proxies no longer use this however, so there's no reason we can't have them use any number of other public STUN servers.
- We can remove stunprotocol.org from the list of *default* client STUN
servers and reserve it for a small subset of users instead. This would really cut down on the traffic, but keep it open as an option for clients in places that have blocked other industry STUN servers.
Another thing to consider is reducing the default polling frequency of standalone proxies and/or increasing the long-polling delay at the broker.