[Tor www-team] [Back-end][CMS]

Fri Jan 10 19:12:03 UTC 2014

Static files rendering:

If you change a single page, it will render that, and will render any
related pages, such as home, tags, etc. Changes to the stylesheet make each
page render again, which tremendously slows down development.

Using Drupal @Olssy:

It's already been established that we *need* something that doesn't need a
database so it can be easily mirrored (on over 70 mirrors) and can be
downloaded and stored by our users (in a pen drive, CD, etc). Also, I don't
believe we need user roles?

On Sat, Jan 11, 2014 at 12:31 AM, Rey Dhuny <rey at spcshp.com> wrote:

> > How often will the static files need to be rendered?
>
> Off the top of my head (not in front of a computer), When a page is
> changed or added, the entire site is regenerated.
>
> I could be mistaken.
>
> Sent from my silly iPhone
>
> On 10 Jan 2014, at 18:58, "Clark Venable" <jclarkv at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> How often will the static files need to be rendered? The greater the time
> interval between static file generation the less speed of engine matters.
> Or an I thinking about this wrong?
>
> Clark Venable
> --
> Clark
>
>
> On Fri, Jan 10, 2014 at 1:55 PM, Rey Dhuny <rey at spcshp.com> wrote:
>
>> Namanyay Goel:
>>
>> Thank you for those stats!
>>
>> Maybe they should be put on the wiki where we can compare performance
>> under the proposed generators section?
>>
>>  > Hmm, Middleman might be overkill, but still I suggest we look into
>> other static site generators, especially that can handle larger sites.
>>
>>  I very much agree, much more so since seeing looking at those stats.
>>
>> Rey
>>
>> On 10 Jan 2014, at 18:49, Namanyay Goel <mail at namanyayg.com> wrote:
>>
>>  I couldn't find much - Except the multiple StackOverflow questions you
>> find when searching 'Jekyll generation slow', and this Github issue:
>> https://github.com/jekyll/jekyll/issues/1140, and my personal experience
>> with using it (Use it on a blog with ~40 posts, generation time is from
>> 8-12 seconds).
>>
>> Hmm, Middleman might be overkill, but still I suggest we look into other
>> static site generators, especially that can handle larger sites.
>>
>> (Points of interest in the Github issue:
>>
>> * Testing with jekyll build:
>>  150 files - 20sec
>> 300 files - 40sec
>> 600 files - 130sec
>>
>> * Testing jekyll build, 100 files, and using Jekyll-Bootstrap:
>> #1
>> real    0m18.725s
>> user    0m18.256s
>> sys 0m0.407s
>>
>> #2
>> real    0m18.578s
>> user    0m18.124s
>> sys 0m0.423s
>>
>> #3
>> real    0m18.467s
>> user    0m17.986s
>> sys 0m0.434s
>>
>> * jekyll new performance:
>>
>> posts
>> 1 0.824s
>> 100 2.644s
>> 1000 25.071s
>> 5000 186.715s
>> 10000  536.904s)
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Jan 11, 2014 at 12:07 AM, Rey Dhuny <rey at spcshp.com> wrote:
>>
>>>  > While Jekyll is indeed a choice, for larger sites, it's generation
>>> time is simply too long.
>>>
>>>  Are there any benchmarks or examples to validate this statement?
>>>
>>> I would be very interested to see generation times comparing the
>>> proposed static site generators, especially for larger sites.
>>>
>>> I personally have never encountered such problems in my usage of Jekyll
>>> though they haven't been large, content heavy applications like will be the
>>> case for torproject.org.
>>>
>>> > (Someone suggested Middleman? It also has internationalization!)
>>>
>>>  I was somebody who suggested Middleman and indeed, it does have
>>> internationalisation baked in, though a concern I personally have is that
>>> it could potentially be _overkill_ for the application in this case.
>>>
>>> Thoughts?
>>>
>>> Rey
>>>
>>> On 10 Jan 2014, at 18:21, Namanyay Goel <mail at namanyayg.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>  While Jekyll is indeed a choice, for larger sites, it's generation
>>> time is simply too long. Development takes time on Jekyll, simply because
>>> of it's generation time. If we can offset that problem in some way, that
>>> would be great, otherwise I feel we should be looking at some other static
>>> site generator (Someone suggested Middleman? It also has
>>> internationalization!)
>>>
>>> As for the debate about author's writing 'code', Markdown is easy to
>>> learn and use, and outputs semantic data. We really don't need a rich text
>>> editor of some sort, Markdown (Or similar languages) are good enough.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, Jan 10, 2014 at 11:45 PM, Gvido Glazers <gvido.glazers at gmail.com
>>> > wrote:
>>>
>>>>  Hello, Everyone!
>>>> Missed the introduction thread, so I'll just start with that:
>>>> I'm Gvido, and I'm currently based in Amsterdam.
>>>> My official job title is front-end developer, but in reality I do
>>>> full-stack development with ruby or python.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Now, back on topic.
>>>> I'm also going to agree with the general sentiment that Jekyll is the
>>>> way to go. It's stable, simple, widely used, easy to extend, and powerful.
>>>> Markdown is really easy to learn, I don't think content creators
>>>> writing about Tor would have a problem grasping it.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Fri, Jan 10, 2014 at 6:52 PM, William Papper <william at papper.me>wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>  Definitely a +1 for Jekyll. There's no need to reinvent the wheel.
>>>>> While a custom solution or plain HTML may seem appealing at first (and
>>>>> would be great for a personal project), Jekyll lets us move much quicker
>>>>> and keeps everything relatively standardized. It also makes it easier for
>>>>> people to collaborate, since Jekyll is widely used.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Fri, Jan 10, 2014 at 11:57 AM, Moritz Süß <moritz at moritzsuess.de>wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Markdown is _very_ simple.
>>>>>> Please check out http://daringfireball.net/projects/markdown/basicsand try out markdown at
>>>>>> http://www.markdownviewer.com/.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Let’s try to use these as long as possible for getting people
>>>>>> familiarized with Markdown. We do not want to duplicate existing
>>>>>> documentation efforts, and keep up-front investment for tools as low as
>>>>>> possible in this project.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I hope I am correct in my understanding that we agree on a static
>>>>>> website generator now, and kind-off agree on Jekyll.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Best
>>>>>>  Moritz
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Am 10.01.2014 um 17:35 schrieb Earl G <globallogins at gmail.com>:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Ok So Jeklly
>>>>>> a user guide for people that need to learn markdown to be able to
>>>>>> contribute to the blog.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> and the front of the site user friendly for anybody that wants to get
>>>>>> started.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> back of the site and deeper for the linux nerds and specialists that
>>>>>> want to dig deeper.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> job done
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 10 January 2014 17:32, Sam E. Lawrence <selbrit at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Fri, Jan 10, 2014 at 10:10 AM, Sean Rafferty <
>>>>>>> seanmrafferty at me.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> But there are a lot of content writers in the world that just don’t
>>>>>>>> know it well enough.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Then they can learn. If someone wants to contribute to a solution to
>>>>>>> a problem as complex as privacy and security, then learning markdown / HTML
>>>>>>> should be a minor investment of their time. Basic HTML takes little time to
>>>>>>> learn, and will instantly boost the self-respect of anyone who wants to
>>>>>>> help Tor and other software projects. Setting a bar is worth it, IMO.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ________________________________________________________________________
>>>>>>> Tor Website Team coordination mailing-list
>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
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>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ________________________________________________________________________
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>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ________________________________________________________________________
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>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
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>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>>  Namanyay Goel <http://namanyayg.com/>
>>>
>>> :: Freelance Web Designer and Developer.
>>> :: UI Designer at MakeUseOf <http://makeuseof.com/>.
>>> :: Author at Symmetrycode <http://symmetrycode.com/>.
>>>  :: @namanyayg <http://twitter.com/namanyayg>
>>>
>>>
>>> ________________________________________________________________________
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>>>
>>> To unsubscribe or change other options, please visit:
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>>>
>>>
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>>>
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>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>  Namanyay Goel <http://namanyayg.com/>
>>
>> :: Freelance Web Designer and Developer.
>> :: UI Designer at MakeUseOf <http://makeuseof.com/>.
>> :: Author at Symmetrycode <http://symmetrycode.com/>.
>>  :: @namanyayg <http://twitter.com/namanyayg>
>>
>>
>> ________________________________________________________________________
>> Tor Website Team coordination mailing-list
>>
>> To unsubscribe or change other options, please visit:
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>>
>>
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>

-- 
Namanyay Goel <http://namanyayg.com/>

:: Freelance Web Designer and Developer.
:: UI Designer at MakeUseOf <http://makeuseof.com/>.
:: Author at Symmetrycode <http://symmetrycode.com/>.
:: @namanyayg <http://twitter.com/namanyayg>
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