[tor-talk] tor project website change

Fri Apr 5 23:42:30 UTC 2019

You should submit a patch, that would be a great way to move the
conversation forward 😄
-Kevin


On Fri, Apr 5, 2019 at 1:34 PM Lee <ler762 at gmail.com> wrote:

> On 4/5/19, Kevin Simper <kevin.simper at gmail.com> wrote:
> > I think the website is good,
>
> If they'd fix the download link on
> https://www.torproject.org/download/ it would be a lot better.
>
> > I felt before that it left out newcomers that
> > didn't know what torbrowser was already, so much was going on that it
> would
> > confuse people that just have heard others mention tor browser and want
> to
> > check it out.
>
> It seems to me that newcomers are the ones that most need warnings
> instead of a blanket
>    Protect yourself against tracking, surveillance, and censorship.
>
> but I don't see anything there about tbb not defaulting to a safer config
>   https://2019.www.torproject.org/docs/faq.html.en#TBBJavaScriptEnabled
>
> and is this still be an open problem?
>
> https://motherboard.vice.com/en_us/article/4x3qnj/how-the-nsa-or-anyone-else-can-crack-tors-anonymity
>
> But tor needs 'covering traffic' and .. what?  They don't want to
> scare people away?
>
> https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2014/07/dear-nsa-privacy-fundamental-right-not-reasonable-suspicion
>
> > I think there is still space for more nerdy pages and I think anyone is
> > allowed to create such a page if they want +1
> >
> > The only thing I am missing is some call to actions for different parts
> of
> > the website when you have done scrolling to the bottom of the page 😄
>
> I'm missing a link for downloading tor.
>
> Regards,
> Lee
>
> >
> > -Kevin
> >
> >
> > On Thu, Apr 4, 2019 at 4:17 PM Lee <ler762 at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >> On 4/3/19, blacklight447 at tutanota.com <blacklight447 at tutanota.com>
> wrote:
> >> > Pretty sure this guy is just trolling and baiting at this point
> >>
> >> It looks more like frustration to me
> >> >> The last actual use case warning or disclaimer on torproject.org
> >> >> was removed by or on October 10 2010.
> >>
> >> Starting at  https://www.torproject.org/
> >>   Browse Privately.
> >>   - with no caveats.
> >>   BLOCK TRACKERS
> >>   - except they aren't actually blocked, just isolated.  right?
> >>   DEFEND AGAINST SURVEILLANCE
> >>   - I suspect tor is a better defense than using a vpn but still...
> >> with no warnings or caveats it seems a bit much.
> >>   RESIST FINGERPRINTING
> >>   - yay!  "Tor Browser aims to ..."  a reasonable claim.
> >>
> >> But wait!  There's more!!
> >>
> >> Click on the 'Download Tor Browser' link & go to
> >> https://www.torproject.org/download/
> >> Click on the 'Download Tor Browser' link on that page and get sent to
> >> "../download/" but that's where I was, so wtf?  Maybe I need
> >> javascript enabled??
> >>
> >> There's also a link for "Verify Tor Browser signature" but no link to
> >> the signature file.
> >>
> >> At least the "Download in another language" link gets me to a page
> >> where I can download tbb and the sig.  It doesn't show which version
> >> will be downloaded, but it does have working links, so it's infinitely
> >> better than the download page.
> >>
> >> Lee
> >>
> >>
> >> > Apr 3, 2019, 10:47 AM by grarpamp at gmail.com:
> >> >
> >> >>> why adversaries should finance tor project and publicly it if they
> >> >>> have
> >> >>> a malicious intent?
> >> >>>
> >> >>
> >> >> Why do adversaries do that to their opponents?
> >> >> Because it's a simple and effective diversion operation.
> >> >> Nor is it dependant upon whether any "malicious intent".
> >> >> Adversaries often fund their opponents to keep them busy and happy
> >> >> even if opponent only a few steps tangent behind the race to actually
> >> >> being able to kill the adversary. It can work actively...
> >> >> "Here's a pile and stream of money to develop some useless
> >> >> or thing we want in an RFP / contract / grant / employee",
> >> >> or passively... "Hey, those guys seem to be going down useless
> >> >> paths, ok here's a bunch of money to keep them happily digging
> >> >> in those holes, LOL." Usually delivered by false fronts.
> >> >> See also "regulatory capture" type of concept. Also how nice
> >> >> salaries and simple weight of self reinforcing mass inertia and
> >> >> groupthink over time can keep any one or group settled into the
> >> >> same thing, less dynamism, up to even not abandoning and starting
> >> >> out elsewhere due to simple risk aversion... "job food friends
> >> lifestyle."
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> Is an entity, product, or network subject to whatever
> >> >> to some degree or other? Maybe, maybe not, others decide.
> >> >> Yet without talking about and analysing harder questions
> >> >> once in a while, especially as generations come and go,
> >> >> people might have less sense therein.
> >> >>
> >> >> If a site looks sexy it must be good, right?
> >> >> That's what at least marketers think, and it's perhaps good enough
> >> >> for browsing mundane TV news sites. Yet there's no frontpage
> >> >> splash disclaimer for others with more sensitive, vulnerable,
> >> >> or different use cases.
> >> >>
> >> >> Nor mention of Tor people hypocritically trying to censor ban
> >> >> nodes out of the consensus for, ironically, nothing more than
> >> >> excercising their right to free speech. Instead of say punting that
> >> >> out to meta analysis projects that users can choose to subscribe
> >> >> to as suits their own likes, support, and thinking therein.
> >> >>
> >> >> To be fair, no different than any other business (say ibm.com)
> >> >> or opensource project... finding much suitability disclaimer
> >> >> on anyone's pages, surely not without a good number of clicks,
> >> >> it's of less interest or natural to cover some potentially
> >> >> questionable areas, adversarial weaknesses, etc... it doesn't sell.
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> Anyhow...
> >> >>
> >> >> The last actual use case warning or disclaimer on torproject.org
> >> >> was removed by or on October 10 2010. Some historical bisects..
> >> >>
> >> >> Site v1
> >> >> first, domain 1998-01-29
> >> >>
> http://web.archive.org/web/19981212031609/http://www.onion-router.net
> >> >> <
> http://web.archive.org/web/19981212031609/http://www.onion-router.net/
> >> >
> >> >>
> >> >> same content actually to "circa" 2006
> >> >>
> http://web.archive.org/web/20061023145713/http://www.onion-router.net
> >> >> <
> http://web.archive.org/web/20061023145713/http://www.onion-router.net/
> >> >
> >> >>
> >> >>
> http://web.archive.org/web/20130120133213/http://www.onion-router.net
> >> >> <
> http://web.archive.org/web/20130120133213/http://www.onion-router.net/
> >> >
> >> >> except for the gov diff
> >> >>
> http://web.archive.org/web/20130420093515/http://www.onion-router.net
> >> >> <
> http://web.archive.org/web/20130420093515/http://www.onion-router.net/
> >> >
> >> >>
> >> >> curr
> >> >>
> http://web.archive.org/web/20190228035625/http://www.onion-router.net
> >> >> <
> http://web.archive.org/web/20190228035625/http://www.onion-router.net/
> >> >
> >> >>
> >> >> Site v2
> >> >> first, domain 2006-10-17
> >> >> http://web.archive.org/web/20071011223019/http://www.torproject.org
> >> >> <
> http://web.archive.org/web/20071011223019/http://www.torproject.org/>
> >> >> last
> >> >> http://web.archive.org/web/20101003133226/http://www.torproject.org
> >> >> <
> http://web.archive.org/web/20101003133226/http://www.torproject.org/>
> >> >>
> >> >> Site v3
> >> >> first
> >> >> http://web.archive.org/web/20101010191937/http://www.torproject.org
> >> >> <
> http://web.archive.org/web/20101010191937/http://www.torproject.org/>
> >> >> last
> >> >> http://web.archive.org/web/20190326100059/https://www.torproject.org
> >> >> <
> http://web.archive.org/web/20190326100059/https://www.torproject.org/>
> >> >>
> >> >> Site v4
> >> >> first
> >> >> http://web.archive.org/web/20190327033924/https://www.torproject.org
> >> >> <
> http://web.archive.org/web/20190327033924/https://www.torproject.org/>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> Misc...
> >> >>
> >>
> http://web.archive.org/web/20041108031017/http://wiki.noreply.org/noreply/TheOnionRouter
> >> >> <
> >>
> http://web.archive.org/web/20041108031017/http://wiki.noreply.org/noreply/TheOnionRouter
> >> >
> >> >>
> >>
> http://web.archive.org/web/20070104070427/http://wiki.noreply.org/noreply/TheOnionRouter
> >> >> <
> >>
> http://web.archive.org/web/20070104070427/http://wiki.noreply.org/noreply/TheOnionRouter
> >> >
> >> >>
> >>
> http://web.archive.org/web/20100416102850/http://wiki.noreply.org/noreply/TheOnionRouter
> >> >> <
> >>
> http://web.archive.org/web/20100416102850/http://wiki.noreply.org/noreply/TheOnionRouter
> >> >
> >> >>
> >>
> http://web.archive.org/web/20110728115309/https://trac.torproject.org/projects/tor/wiki
> >> >> <
> >>
> http://web.archive.org/web/20110728115309/https://trac.torproject.org/projects/tor/wiki
> >> >
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>> what you said
> >> >>>
> >> >>
> >> >> It's really all junk lately, just delete it.
> >> >> --
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> >> >>
> >> >
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