[tor-talk] Is there any societal use in Bitcoin?
helianth at gmail.com
Thu Sep 7 22:42:05 UTC 2017
Thanks ... let's see how bitcoin in combination with the blockchain ledger
for health care and possible resource distribution develops ... and
potentially country by country, nation state by nation state, language by
language and legal system by legal system ...
On Thu, Sep 7, 2017 at 2:43 AM, carlo von lynX <lynX at time.to.get.psyced.org>
> On Tue, Sep 05, 2017 at 08:50:20AM +0200, Jon Tullett wrote:
> > > This is still an alpha release
> > > * Exchange implements the full Taler protocol, but does not integrate
> with traditional banking systems
> > > * No integration with "real" banks, so only toy currencies are
> available for now.
> > > * Documentation, testing, error handling and performance still need to
> be improved.
> > That has NOPE NOPE NOPE written all over it for me, I'm afraid. I'm
> When Linus first published his new kernel prototype, that too had
> NOPE NOPE NOPE written all over it for you?
> > sure it's very clever, but until one of the release notes says "You
> > can now safely transfer funds from one bank to another", I'll stick
> > with established options (which include BTC, just not for spot forex
> > xfers).
> Of course taler as a taxable micropayment system only works if
> it actually has any currency attached to it. The point is to
> make it clear that the option exists and we merely need to
> convince some banks and politicians to offer a societally
> reasonable alternative to BTC by adopting this. You are
> speaking as if these were unsurmountable hurdles and
> politicians weren't human beings. :)
> On Tue, Sep 05, 2017 at 09:23:19AM -0700, Scott MacLeod wrote:
> > World University and School (which is like Wikipedia in 295 languages
> > CC MIT OCW in 7 languages and CC Yale OYC) is taking an all ~200
> > official languages' approach to developing blockchain / bitcoin ... but
> Sounds like something so big it's unbelievable I never heard of it...
> > planning too for health care data, for example, in the blockchain -
> > http://scott-macleod.blogspot.com/2017/08/sustainability-
> Did you read my post and its doubts on the feasability of non-statal UBI?
> "And an universal basic income emphasizing the >universal< of 7.5
> billion people - coding and database-wise - and building on the block chain
> ledger / bit coin, with artificial intelligence and machine learning and
> machine translation, is an amazing coding, information technology, and
> helping opportunity (and hopefully all ~200 nation states will provide the
> financial resources for the UBI for all 7.5 billion people) ... (emerging
> from their tax IDs or social security number equivalents in each of all
> ~200-250 nation states, and possibly from people's drivers' licenses, and
> also connected with their smart phones ... and, conceivably, eventually
> even as part of their bodyminds with a chip or similar ... )."
> This all doesn't sound exactly reassuring, but regarding the key
> phrase "and hopefully all ~200 nation states will provide the
> financial resources for the UBI" ...
> 1. why on Earth would they do so if UBI is still heavily disputed
> 2. why on Earth would they want to use a flaky anarchist currency
> if they can simply do a bank transfer or use any other type of
> efficient and scalable digital payment to each of their citizen?
> 3. when and where will you discuss that being able to finance a
> UBI actually implies dramatic changes to the taxation system
> and the economy of each of the ~200 nation states?
> So, given that (1) and (3) are the actually difficult challenges
> in this scenario, focusing on (2) as if it were a solution to the
> other two appears quite... out of touch with realism.
> Since you published your tor-talk post on your website, will you
> also publish a link to the criticism that led you to write your
> post and continue the discourse on your website by including these
> new paragraphs of mine?
> By the way, I have written several positive posts on the feasibility
> of CUBI (cumulative unconditional basic income) on my.pages.de - but
> they have nothing to do with blockchains since the State is funda-
> mental for making it work, therefore there is no gain in using
> anti-statal distribution methods: you're not shaking off the
> dependency on a functional governmental apparatus anyway.
> But let us not end up in a UBI discussion which is highly OT for
> tor-talk, and stick firmly on the question whether there are
> ethical use cases of bitcoin which legitimize it threatening the
> future of Tor and other civil rights networks, unjustly framed
> as "darknets". So far I don't see any reason why Tor should
> defend Bitcoin and risk collapsing politically under its weight.
> Tor should be a civil rights network, not a criminality network.
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