[tor-talk] Tor -> VPN Clarification

Bill Berry bill at techwang.com
Mon Feb 2 10:06:46 UTC 2015


> As I recall, nobody in this thread has actually opined that "VPN -> Tor"
> is "definitely not good". People have quoted Grugq to that effect, from
> a 2012 presentation. But nobody here has made an argument for it.

I think leeroy presented some compelling reasons why in his case 1 
(easier to do correlation attacks on VPN over Tor etc)


On 02/02/15 00:15, Mirimir wrote:
> On 02/01/2015 03:46 PM, Joe Btfsplk wrote:
>> On 2/1/2015 3:51 PM, l.m wrote:
>>> Now I'm not saying either is better [Case 1, Tor connect to a VPN;
>>> Case 2, VPN connect to Tor]
>>> but I prefer the one with more variables in my favor.
>>>
>>> --leeroy
>> Thanks.  I read Case 1 & 2 - couple times (need a few more).
>> I gather the one with "more variables in my favor" is Case 2 - Using VPN
>> to connect to Tor?
>> That is the one (some) have said is definitely not good - yes? Still
>> others may have said that VPN  connecting to Tor, isn't as bad as some
>> have indicated?
> As I recall, nobody in this thread has actually opined that "VPN -> Tor"
> is "definitely not good". People have quoted Grugq to that effect, from
> a 2012 presentation. But nobody here has made an argument for it.
>
>> Observation:  There are a LOT of assumptions about VPNs & adversaries.
>> And they may / could be true.  Just sayin'.
>> The scenarios you describe, would almost seem to say (equivalent of):
>> "Either of these is *full* of pitfalls, but since I'm gonna die if I
>> don't do something, I can pick one (then pray)."
> That is insane! Look, maybe I'm a raving lunatic. Fine, ignore me.
> Except this bit: For the love of grod, listen to Paul Syverson.[0]
>
>> Reason I ask (about using Tor & *anything* else), is I need to do some
>> legitimate, online research.
>> Not political / terrorist issues, etc., nor anything socially taboo.
>> But still something I don't want anyone looking over my shoulder.
>>
>> And I'm not sure if using TBB by itself (in Windows) is "good enough."
> It's not. Use Whonix, or better yet, Qubes with the Whonix-team mods.
>
> [0] https://lists.torproject.org/pipermail/tor-talk/2015-January/036644.html
>

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