[tor-talk] Questions about NSA monitoring of Tor users.
apx.808 at gmail.com
Sun Jul 13 23:45:10 UTC 2014
>Mark McCarron said:
>Did no one notice trillions are being drained from the US economy into
some unidentified military project for the last decade or more???
>It would seem to indicate that there is a Manhatten-style project underway.
Do you have more details/links about that?
On Sun, Jul 13, 2014 at 10:27 AM, Mark McCarron <mark.mccarron at live.co.uk>
> I can answer this:
> 1. The IP addresses can be connected to an ISP and physical address
> should the need arise. It allows the NSA to "rewind the tape" so to speak.
> That is why there has been a push for data retention at ISPs. Given that
> in the EU governments are seeking 2 years, it would indicate that the
> platform can rewind internet activity for at least that long.
> 2. Tor is a communications platform, the NSA's job is to monitor
> communications and intercept military planning that effects either itself
> or its partners. Secure global communications and computing is now a
> commodity, whereas it was mainly a state-only capability. Thus, the
> average user is now coming up against intelligence agencies, rather than
> state actors alone. Leaving blind spots would be dangerous to national
> security as it provides opportunities for planning and coordination. So,
> there is a legitimate case here and no one denies it. The real problem is
> that in the absence of a genuine international threat and by that I mean
> someone on the scale of Russia/China, these systems are being directed
> against groups with limited capabilities. Those groups are now being
> defined as national security threats to justify budgets and to filter money
> into particular black projects. Revelations by Snowden and other releases
> are merely a distraction to where the money is really going.
> Did no one notice trillions are being drained from the US economy into
> some unidentified military project for the last decade or more???
> It would seem to indicate that there is a Manhatten-style project underway.
> Mark McCarron
> > Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2014 23:14:30 +0000
> > From: simonsnake at openmailbox.org
> > To: tor-talk at lists.torproject.org
> > Subject: [tor-talk] Questions about NSA monitoring of Tor users.
> > I have two questions about the recent revelations that the NSA has been
> > collecting data about Tor users.
> > I would like to hear from those with personal knowledge and experience
> > such as Jacob, Roger, Mike, etc.
> > AIUI, from the stories in the German media
> > (http://daserste.ndr.de/panorama/aktuell/nsa230_page-1.html) and Wired
> > (http://www.wired.com/2014/07/nsa-targets-users-of-privacy-services/),
> > the NSA has logged the IP of everyone who ever accessed:
> > a) a directory server.
> > b) an entry node.
> > c) bridges.torproject.org
> > d) requested an email of bridges.
> > e) the tor website itself (except from five eyes countries).
> > This is viable as the NSA runs the Quantum network which allows it to
> > intercept traffic to whichever sites it desires before that traffic
> > arrives at its destination.
> > Two questions:
> > 1. What would be the purpose of collecting a vast trove of IP
> > In my case, my IP could be tied to my real name since I send emails via
> > SMTP which will contain my IP, email address, real name, etc. That said,
> > IP addresses are dynamic. I don't know how easy it would be to identify
> > most people via an IP. Of course, one way would be to ask the ISP
> > directly. But, whether tied to a real identity or not, what's the point?
> > What does it achieve? They also gather the IP address for those who
> > access any number of proxy services such as MegaProxy and
> > FreeProxies.org. Would they not just end up with a massive database of
> > (mostly dynamic) IPs?
> > 2. What is the attitude that encourages the gathering of this
> > information? Is it: because they can? Or do they truly believe that
> > anyone who uses Tor is dangerous? Bear in mind that Tor was developed
> > and is still funded by the US government. No-one can deny that
> > dissidents in unfree countries use it. So, even if you assume that a
> > high percentage of users are bad people, what about the dissidents in
> > the Middle East or wherever? What is the psychology here? I'm sure
> > people like Roger are in regular contact with some government types.
> > Perhaps he can shed some light on the motivation?
> > --
> > tor-talk mailing list - tor-talk at lists.torproject.org
> > To unsubscribe or change other settings go to
> > https://lists.torproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tor-talk
> tor-talk mailing list - tor-talk at lists.torproject.org
> To unsubscribe or change other settings go to
More information about the tor-talk