[tor-talk] Tor Exit Operator convicted in Austrian lower court

no.thing_to-hide at cryptopathie.eu no.thing_to-hide at cryptopathie.eu
Sun Jul 6 15:54:40 UTC 2014

Hash: SHA1

Thanks for the notice.
The German Heise publisher provides good information to IT-related
topics, but in German. I tried my Google-translate-link just before,
and it worked via Tor, perhaps you could switch the exit? Anyway, here
ist the original link:

Best regards


- -- 
no.thing_to-hide at cryptopathie dot eu
0x30C3CDF0, RSA 2048, 24 Mar 2014
0FF8 A811 8857 1B7E 195B 649E CC26 E1A5 30C3 CDF0
Bitmessage (no metadata): BM-2cXixKZaqzJmTfz6ojiyLzmKg2JbzDnApC

On 06/07/14 17:31, Joe Btfsplk wrote:
> To "no.thing_to-hide" - the link you provided is inaccessible for
> me. It gives a message:  "This page was not retrieved from its
> original location over a secure connection." Not sure if there's a
> way around it, or maybe provide the original page & let people
> translate it themselves? On 7/4/2014 4:56 PM,
> no.thing_to-hide at cryptopathie.eu wrote: I fully agree with Joe!
> Running an exit can get you in serious legal trouble, because Tor
> /and all other anonymity services/ will always be misused for
> illegal activities. Every interested operator must make his
> personal moral trade-off and come to a decision. Sartre described
> such a discussion in a more extreme scenario in "Les mains sales"
> (= Dirty hands)
> Anyway, I decided not to run an exit but only an internal relay.
> And to join German CCC and Zwiebelfreunde (Hello to the colleagues
> by the way!). We operate really big relays, secured by professional
> admins. Much better than I could setup at home as hobbyist w/o
> IT-education. So you are an association and the legal risk and
> potential lawyer costs are distributed.
> Even the simple use of Tor is not w/o risk for everyday use: 
> https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&ie=UTF8&prev=_t&sl=de&tl=en&u=http://www.heise.de/ct/heft/2013-20--2248651.html%3Fview%3Dprint
> I think one should have at least some basic knowledge about what
> the Internet, SSL certificates, browsers, scripting and plugins are
> and how they work.
> Best regards
> Anton -- no.thing_to-hide at cryptopathie dot eu 0x30C3CDF0, RSA
> 2048, 24 Mar 2014 0FF8 A811 8857 1B7E 195B 649E CC26 E1A5 30C3
> CDF0 Bitmessage (no metadata):
> BM-2cXixKZaqzJmTfz6ojiyLzmKg2JbzDnApC
> On 04/07/14 22:56, Joe Btfsplk wrote:
>>>> On 7/3/2014 2:23 PM, C B wrote:
>>>>> "I agree that collecting stories about "why/how I use Tor"
>>>>> is useful, but I disagree that any special education or
>>>>> warning should be needed before setting up an exit node.
>>>>> Setting up an exit node is simply providing another IP that
>>>>> can be used for traffic and nothing else."
>>>> Holy... "they may not have a clue what danger lies ahead,"
>>>> Batman. We're going to have to agree to disagree, that at
>>>> least some basic info on potential dangers be supplied, if
>>>> only links. We've all seen several people conversing on
>>>> tor-talk now, that were run through the ringer, for running
>>>> Tor relays.
>>>> I don't think any of them thought they'd be fighting for
>>>> their freedom; spending a huge part of savings to defend
>>>> themselves or going through extended, true mental anguish of
>>>> wondering if they'd lose their freedom & family.
>>>> Maybe Tor Project itself isn't the one that should be doing
>>>> the educating in this case - dunno. Though I don't like the
>>>> thought of people going through hell on Earth, because they
>>>> didn't understand the dangers, I also understand it's not in
>>>> Tor Project's best interest to scare off relay operators.
>>>> One issue is, every Tor user is encouraged to run a relay.
>>>> Kind of like the US Army commercials promoting adventure &
>>>> visiting foreign lands, instead of bullets & grenades coming
>>>> at you.
>>>> Moritz, I'm not sure if the 1st FAQ at the link 
>>>> https://www.torproject.org/eff/tor-legal-faq.html.en portrays
>>>> an accurate picture of potential dangers:
>>>>> "Has anyone ever been sued or prosecuted for running Tor?"
>>>> *>"No*, we aren't aware of anyone being sued or prosecuted in
>>>> the United States just for running a Tor relay. Further, we
>>>> believe that running a Tor relay --- including an exit relay
>>>> that allows people to anonymously send and >receive traffic
>>>> --- is legal under U.S. law."
>>>> That may need a bit of revision. :D  Maybe no one has been 
>>>> prosecuted in the US (I don't know), but people in other
>>>> countries sure have. And being investigated or going through
>>>> court hearings & trials - maybe for months or yrs, can
>>>> destroy a person. It can be devastating, even if you're never
>>>> formally charged.
>>>> Many people who've never gone through something like that
>>>> can't fully understand the incredible stress of being
>>>> investigated & threatened.
>>>> The concept of, "No one's been *prosecuted* in the US,
>>>> therefore running Tor relays has no potentially serious legal
>>>> ramifications," is glossing over the dangers.
>>>> Running a relay may not be *the* most dangerous activity, but
>>>> it sure carries significant risk.  Many that get tor-talk
>>>> regularly have read that. But some potential relay operators
>>>> might not read tor-talk every day for months, to read about
>>>> someone that got in serious legal trouble, before they decide
>>>> to / not to run a relay.
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