[tor-talk] All I Want For X-mas: TorPhone

spencerone at openmailbox.org spencerone at openmailbox.org
Wed Dec 31 15:31:10 UTC 2014

Arxaios, I think you may be confusing cannot with should not.   Though, 
regarding TorPhone, it is established that WiFi and cellular antenna 
connections as a means of communication are by nature able to track 
people, as that seems to be how they work.  However, I do not think that 
implies that we should give up.

Though they would still share your location, encrypted or not, we could 
put hardware switches on TorPhone, allowing people to physically disable 
their WiFi and cellular antennas as easily as adjusting the audio 
volume.  This could also apply to other things, like non-removable 
batteries, as a way of ensuring that no connections can be made.  Even 
just a network filter would assist people in limiting, or cutting off 
completely, network connections, especially those which share location 

And, regarding your "first rule" of back doors and open systems as a 
safety, rules are meant to be broken :)

Nathan, thanks!  I am familiar with Orwall, though configuring 
applications to route traffic through Orbot isn't a walk in the park for 
most people, since their is a warning about using non-tor configured 
applications on the site.  Many people don't even understand what root 
access is, let alone be able to achieve it.  Tomy sounds cool.  Though, 
from what I can read, it has a ways to go.  Also, there is the 
limitation for many people of not understanding having a second 
partition/OS on their device.  If it came pre-installed and could be 
switched over to at will with a gesture or two, then that could be super 
cool and easy to manage.

Giovanni, Janus sounds great, but very esoteric and a lot to learn, at 
least for most people.

We'll see what the new year brings.



> Arxaios haris at arxaios.net said:
> I know this because I am a Greek , but you cannot mix Greek Letters
> which obviously you do not have a clue what they mean, with English
> words. Ether you write full words in Greek or in English , and do not
> mix BECAUSE THEY DO NOT MIX TOGETHER. The Greek language is the most
> encrypted language in the word with millions of combinations and
> meanings .! Not my words only , but a lot of programmers + developers 
> in
> various computer companies.
> Anyway ..about tor phone now... Do YOU really believe that there is an
> anonymity in the tor network?? because if you think so , then you are
> mistaken badly. Everything and I mean EVERYTHING are monitored by the
> people behind the "scenes" as I call them. All the phone calls , emails
> and every information is monitored by the "SYSTEM" and of course they
> file you , knowing everything about you. They will never let anything
> like tor-phone unattached no matter what encryption it will use.
> If you do not believe the above , then ask yourself this simple 
> question
> : The people who will design the encrypted protocols will also leave
> some "back doors" open as a safety. The first rule is not to build
> something "closed" because if something goes wrong you will not have
> access to it to fix it. Simple as that. So the big question is : how
> safe do you think you are??"
> Arxaios.


> Nathan Freitas nathan at freitas.net said:
> Orwall is an attempt to automate the firewall configuration Mike 
> covered
> in his blog, and to improve open (and replace) Orbot's transparent
> proxying features: https://github.com/EthACKdotOrg/orWall
> There is also someone else (I can't find the link right now), working 
> on
> automating all of the core system changes in the post through a
> flashable updater on top of AOSP or Cyanogen. This is an effort that I
> will be focusing on supporting more in 2015.
> Built on that is our longer term concept of a TAILS-like mobile system
> called Tomy, that can utilize bootable USB drives with Android phones
> and tablets:
> https://dev.guardianproject.info/projects/libro/wiki/Tomy_Detachable_Secure_Mobile_System


> Giovanni Pellerano giovanni.pellerano at evilaliv3.org said:
> yep, eventually it could be implemented a trick that vecna used in
> SniffJoke and i reimplemented some years ago in Janus:
> https://github.com/evilaliv3/janus
> this way nathan things can be done really more in a transparent way.
> fqrouter used it on android phones with success in past reimplementing
> janus concepy in python: https://gist.github.com/fqrouter/5083321

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