[tor-talk] VPN then Tor - is this safe?

[Mirimir]

On 04/29/2014 05:08 PM, Bernard Tyers wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> Thanks for the reply.
> 
> On 29/04/2014 23:03, Mirimir wrote:
>> Using Tor through VPNs, it is VPN providers who see connections
>> with entry guards, rather than ISPs. And ISPs see VPN links rather
>> than connections with entry guards. Which is safer depends on how
>> much one trusts ones ISP vs ones VPN provider.
> 
> In this person's case, they trusted the ISP less as it is a UK ISP and
> so subject to the recent "Cameron Porn Filter", and all other filters
> that are probably coming down the track.

Right, so in that case, they can't trust their ISP ;)

> Regarding the VPN provider, I don't know how trustworthy witopio is.

I don't know Witopia, and they're not even covered in
<https://torrentfreak.com/which-vpn-services-take-your-anonymity-seriously-2014-edition-140315>.
>From what I see on the Web, they're similar to HideMyAss. And I'd trust
them about as much. I recommend that your friend pick one from the
TorrentFreak review.

>> Using VPNs tunneled through Tor is always less anonymous than using
>> Tor alone. Even with free VPNs, the exit IP does not change, except
>> in a limited way using different VPN exits. Also, Tor circuits
>> don't change except when the VPN reconnects.
> 
> When you say "except when the VPN reconnects" you mean the VPN
> end-point reconnecting to the Tor node, or the end-user reconnecting
> to the VPN node? I presume the latter.

It's both, I think. If the VPN fully disconnects and then reconnects, I
believe that it uses a new Tor circuit. If the OpenVPN client-server
connection is merely refreshed, however, I suspect that the Tor circuit
doesn't change.

>> However, using VPNs tunneled through Tor is always more anonymous
>> than using VPNs alone. And that may be necessary for accessing
>> websites that block Tor exits.
> 
> Good point. I will find out more.
> 
> Thanks,
>