[tor-talk] Until there's a REAL effing way to communicate, that evey1 can use, I'm DONE

[Cat S]

Hi Warren,

It's now clear to me you're a troll, or at least very dense and obtuse. Go back under your bridge, you will never get another response from me. Why don't you go be disingenuous elsewhere?

If you're so new to Tor, why don't you build up some cred before telling me what to do? As I've done WAY more for Tor Project then you, at least according to what you've claimed.

/done with annoying obtuse people/



________________________________
 From: Warren Michelsen <Warren at MDCCLXXVI.us>
To: "tor-talk at lists.torproject.org" <tor-talk at lists.torproject.org> 
Sent: Tuesday, June 18, 2013 7:16 PM
Subject: Re: [tor-talk] Until there's a REAL effing way to communicate, that evey1 can use, I'm DONE
 

On Jun 18, 2013, at 12:50 PM, Cat S <catslovetor at yahoo.com> wrote:

> 
> The "barriers to newbs" e.g. is that using mailing-lists is not easy for newbs, I've had newbs try this and none of them thought it was simple or fun, they all complied about the complexity and that it's "not simple" [0]. 
> 
> Barrier example:
> A newb must choose an e-mail client (most newbs use web based e-mail), figure out how to use the client, figure out how to setup e-mail address for themselves using the client (let's not even get into TLS/SSL!), figure out how to sign up to tor-talk, then learn list etiquette (e.g. top-posting) and learn about threading (e.g. how to respond), and then learn how to filter out messages they don't care about (if they ever get that far), lastly, they have to read (or at least open) dozens and dozens and dozens of e-mails they don't care about. 

So, basically, you want to protect newbs from ever having to learn to use email. Do you not believe that email is a valuable tool? Is it, in your opinion, an outdated mechanism? If they learned to use email, would they not likely find it a handy tool?

> Following a thread is not easy, especially when you're not used to e-mail client and mailing-lists.

Yet newbs routinely figure out the intricacies of FaceBook. A proper email client takes care of threading. 

> We should not make it any harder than it has to be, for newbs to get the help they need. 

No one is "making it hard". It is what it is; if they want help, learn how to get it. If you want to make it easier, then do it. 

I'm brand new to Tor and, IMO, the developers should be working on Tor, not on ways to save newbs from having to learn anything. 

> ... A CEO of a fortune 500 company can be a newb, as can my grandmother, or my nephew.

Seems to me that if these folks want to use this free product, the least they can do is put in the effort to learn how. Now, if you want to make it easier to find help, by all means, do. I applaud your altruistic motivations. 

But I do not applaud your initial rant which seemed a bit like the spokesperson for the "Occupy Tor Street" crowd demanding that the one percent work harder to give the 99% better free stuff. 

I'll make this offer: you do the research and choose the forum software you want (that runs on a standard LAMP server) to use and I'll put it on line and make you the admin. Create the forum of your dreams and I'll foot the bill. Fair enough?

Let the Tor developers work on Tor. 
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