Hetzner

[Timo Schoeler]

thus Eugen Leitl spake:
> On Thu, Jun 25, 2009 at 10:28:23AM +0200, Timo Schoeler wrote:
> 
>>> Hidden services will run very fine with only middleman and bridge nodes.
>> that's true, for sure. However, we create a parallel world doing this. 
> 
> That's not a bug, it's a feature.

I never said that it's a bug. I just said that if we drop the connection 
to the 'normal' internet we lost the fight. Things like the french 
revolution were without avail.

>> From a metaphysical POV (IMHO), TOR is (partly) existing to defend 
>> civil rights. But to be able to do this, it must exist not only in a 
> 
> The free, uncesored Intenet is dead. 

So, we already lost it.

> The sooner we acknowledge this,
> and realize that we need an anonymizing publishing layer on top of
> that the better.

The problem is that TOR (and any other system accomplishing this target) 
excludes the 'masses', if one may say so.

> I keep harping about that since early 1990s. Surisingly
> little has happened since.
> 
>> 'parallel world'. Losing connection to 'this world' (today's internet) 
>> would mean to lose the 'war'.
> 
> Things are never quite black and white.

A few things are, some are not. Have you ever seen a girl being 'a 
little big pregnant'? ;)

> There is a network that is
> censored and sniffed but also accountable, and hence less prone to abuse. 
> On top of that you can have a network that anonymous/pseudonymous,
> unaccountable, and slightly abusive.
> 
> There's a place for both of them to exist. 

True.

Timo