Tor operator raided in Finland

M maillist at
Wed Jan 30 09:44:47 UTC 2008

> Why tor is banned in Finland? it's just unimaginable!!!

I don't think that it is banned. Police just does not understand proxies 
and thinks that traffic going through the proxy was originated from the 
proxy and that the proxys administrator is downloading everything that 
in reality just goes through the proxy.

Finnish Law has a paragraph that states that service providers are not 
responsible for traffic that goes through the proxy or for material that 
customers upload to their sites (but service provider must remove 
illegal material as soon as they notice it or as soon as cops call them).

> I am from China, where internet censorship is used by the government.
> So we use tor to avoid censorship from the government.
> But so far as I know, there is no internet censorship in Finland, I 
> donot know if I am right?

Yes there is but not the same size as in China. Finnish netcensorship 
should block cp but they also block legal porn for example. They also 
block the traffic by servers ip-address, not by the domain. As one ip 
can contain multiple websites, email server, ftp, dns proxy and so they 
block them all if even one cp-site is working on that server.

Imagine a service provider that hosts multiple sites, dns-server and 
email for many domains and one of it's customers upload some cp on their 
site -> finnish police blocks EVERYTHING that resides on that server. 
They do not even try to catch the illegal sites admin or remove the 
illegal material, they just censors the whole server.

I'm also afraid that they are going to start censoring everything that 
they don't like even if it's not illegal. The system to censor net is 
already build so next step could be that they start censoring criticism 
for the state, copyright infrigments and so on. Maybe I'm just a bit 

Finnish "MPAA" tried to misuse the system and already tried to add sites 
to blocklist that they don't like. I't did not succeed.

The blocking is very ineffective as cp can be routed through many 
different ways, not just http. I think that cops should not try to 
censor the web but try to catch the paedophiles that hurt the children.

Also the sentences for rape or statuatory rape are ridiculous here. 
Paedophiles that have raped children and get convicted for the first 
time will get only probation sentence. So they don't go to jail and one 
can break his probation only by committing same crime as they were 
sentenced. So if one has raped children and then beats up some children 
he does not lose his probation.

It's just sick. One can rape and beat up a women and does not get any 
jailtime at all. If he does it again he maybe gets something like 6 
months. For the third time he may even get two years! This is just 
ridiculous. Fines are also very small, usually something like 500 euros 
to couple of thousand euros. Same goes for the compensation for victims. 
If rapevictim gets 10 000 euros compensations it's unsually big 
compensation and the rape has been unusually brutal.

Heres an example (in finnish) 

"Schoolboy convicted to probation for raping 8 year old girl". The girl 
was 8 years old and the raper 16. He raped the girl at least three times 
in a row. The court said that the incident was "unusually humiliating". 
The boy got 1 year and 10 monts probation and he has to pay 11 000 euros 
as a compensation for the victim.

Okay, this was quite unsual case as the raper was only sixteen but rest 
of the rape sentences (and statuary rape) are quite the same.

> If not for avoiding censorhip, why do you use tor? The Police should not 
> have interrupted you if you had not done illeagal operate such as 
> sending junk mails with tor....

I'm not trying to avoid local censorship or trying to do anything 
illegal. I'm trying to protect my privacy. I'm not sending junk mail, 
I'm on the different side as I work as server admin and try to stop 
spam. I only proxied the traffic that I'm blamed for, it did not 
originate from my server.


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