[tor-relays] OS diversity of tor relays (was Re: Relay uptime versus outdated Tor version)

[Zack Weinberg]

Relay diversity and client diversity are two different things. Last I heard
it was a bad idea to run a relay on the same computer as a client, so I
don't think Tor Browser for server OSes like Solaris is a great use of
developer effort.

Windows is certainly the highest-value target for client diversity efforts.
I hear the Brave company is hiring someone to work specifically on Tor
integration, maybe you want to apply: https://brave.com/jobs/?gh_jid=781438

In my opinion, the best way to improve relay diversity would be to work on
system administration automation. For instance, as far as I know there is
no equivalent of Debian's 'unattended-upgrades' tool for any of the BSDs,
or even for most Linux distributions.

zw

(Please forgive the top-posting and HTML, I'm writing this on a phone.)

On Sat, Aug 19, 2017 at 4:56 AM Duncan <dguthrie at posteo.net> wrote:

> Firstly, a note of caution: I am not affiliated with the Tor project.
>
> Scott Bennett:
> > Duncan <dguthrie at posteo.net> wrote:
> >
> >> In theory hot-patching kernels is a great idea.
> >>
> >> However, they're technically not loading a new kernel. Something like
> >> kexec in theory lets one load a new kernel.
> >>
> >> Furthermore, these hot-patching programs usually only support Linux.
> >> If
> >> we want to increase the diversity of the Tor network, as we most
> >> certainly should, then we need more BSD relays, so these hot-patching
> >> programs don't cut it.
> >>
> >      The tor project has made the point that OS diversity is important,
> > but it has failed to show the courage of its conviction.  It commits
> > great
> > effort to maintain a "safe" tor browser for the OS for which tor relays
> > currently abound, yet still offers no version of that browser to entice
> > *BSD, Solaris, MINIX, or other OS users to run tor relays.  Instead,
> > such
> > users are apparently expected either to use clearly unsafe browsers or
> > to
> > run VMs of other than their native OS to run a safe browser.  The tor
> > community is thus very lucky for what diversity of relay OS currently
> > exists.
>
> If I may, the point of diversifying the network is *not* to "entice"
> BSD/Solaris/MINIX users, the number of which, even compared to Linux,
> which is quite low, is astonishingly small. I'd argue more effort should
> actually be put into hardening Tor Browser for Windows, as it is on
> Linux that much of the hardening efforts are currently being focused,
> unfortunately.
>
> The point is that as it stands, serious bugs that affect Linux currently
> affect the entirety of the Tor network. As a mono-culture, this could
> cause problems in the future, especially as the network expands. This is
> an issue for client users too, certainly. However, it is not clear that
> there would be a benefit to providing builds to operating systems with a
> very low number of users. I'm sure there are people using BeOS or Plan 9
> which want to use Tor Browser, after all. They can always compile it
> from source if they wish (whether it would run is another matter, but
> that is work that would take away from helping a greater number of
> users).
>
> That being said, there is in fact the very good TorBSD project which
> provides Tor Browser builds for OpenBSD. I do not know what the
> situation with FreeBSD is, but that provides a Linux compatibility
> layer, which I've heard Tor Browser works with. Here it is:
> http://torbsd.github.io/
>
> >      I've pointed this problem out several times, but to the best of my
> > memory, none of the tor developers has ever responded on this issue.
> >
> >
> >                                   Scott Bennett, Comm. ASMELG, CFIAG
> > **********************************************************************
> > * Internet:   bennett at sdf.org   *xor*   bennett at freeshell.org  *
> > *--------------------------------------------------------------------*
> > * "A well regulated and disciplined militia, is at all times a good  *
> > * objection to the introduction of that bane of all free governments *
> > * -- a standing army."                                               *
> > *    -- Gov. John Hancock, New York Journal, 28 January 1790         *
> > **********************************************************************
>
> Best,
> Duncan
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>
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