[tor-relays] Exit policy question

Sven Olaf Kamphuis sven at cb3rob.net
Fri Jun 3 16:01:45 UTC 2011

On Fri, 3 Jun 2011, Eugen Leitl wrote:

> On Fri, Jun 03, 2011 at 12:27:08PM +0000, Sven Olaf Kamphuis wrote:
>> plus, who still cares about smtp anyway, its pretty much dead, 300 spam
> If you think SMTP is dead, you're way out of touch with reality.
>> mails per day and just 1 or 2 real emails a week, anything important is
> If you receive 300 spams/day, and your volume is not 50000 emails/day,
> there's something wrong with your spam filter.

no, there is something wrong with a protocol that requires "Spam filters" 
in the first place.

>> handled over skype and other transports which have "friends lists"
> Skype? That thing that's blocked on corporate networks, and the
> kind of company that autoinstalls malware despite explicit user's
> wishes? The kind of company just purchased by Microsoft, which
> forebodes plenty of great things in the future?

whatever, jabber, msn, etc all have friends lists and none of them have 
problems like smtp.

>> nowadays. if they don't fix their protocol to have friends lists, they
>> have no right to complain.. we're gonna completely shut down smtp soon
> Who is this 'we' kemosabe?

the republic cyberbunker / cb3rob (as34109/51787), can't speak for the 
rest of the internet but we conclude the same with our customers... 
smtp based email, 
has been brought back to the bare nessesity and will disappear soon 

>> enough, its old, dusty, not peer 2 peer (hardly any open relays
> It *WORKS*. And is an integral part of corporate communications.

no, it does not "work", for all the reasons described here, the people 
that tried to stop spam, only introduced more severe problems in the 

>> left),insecure (no pre-approved senders/friends list) slow (graylisting),

> Insecure? Never heard about StartTLS or PGP/S/MIME?

yeah sure, like ssl is a good idea... root exploit anyone, master keys 
with an enemy of the european people (america), etc.

no thanks :P

pgp, sure, but if we're gonna take -that- much trouble, might as well 
replace the whole protocol :P

>> unreliable (spamhaus idiots), and pretty much, dead (number of real
>> emails per week vs the number of junk per hour ;).
>> even more dead than that other piece of crap from the past, ftp and
> Ftp is dead, too? Nobody told me.

run some statistics on the number of people that install ftpd on servers 
would ya... it's all ssh file transfer nowadays, and http for public file 
transfer, google doesn't even index ftp (altavista did ;)

> In fact, ftp and mail server is the first thing that people yell about
> when it goes down.

the reason why this happens is because there is a bunch of popups on their 
screen that stay there even if the pop3 server was unreachable for a 
minute or so.. doesn't make it a 'more popular protocol' than skype.
just means that they notice any downtime, however small it may have been, 
even if its a week ago :P

> What are you going to tell us next? That nobody uses telephones,
> and there are no fax machines? Really? You sure?

do you still have a fax machine working and connected?

telephones? yeah sure but not on every desk anymore..

>> gopher :P
>> anyway, an access lists which allows http and https but -not- to
>> hotmail/gmail/rest of that crap would not be too hard to make.
> P.S. As someone who bitches about email, notice you're using
> email, and you top-posted and failed to trim the message.

i'll post wherever the fuck i want, tyvm :P

and i'm aware that i'm using email, which doesn't nessesarily mean that 
it's still a "live" protocol (it just means that you are abusing it for 
what newsgroups were intended for, and meanwhile newsgroups are being 
abused for what http/ftp were intended for (warez ;)

all mailservers except for a few have been removed, mx records have gone, 
before the end of 2011, bye bye smtp. old crap :P

> > -- 
> Eugen* Leitl <a href="http://leitl.org">leitl</a> http://leitl.org
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