[tor-mirrors] tor-mirrors Digest, Vol 25, Issue 10

Dustin Hess hessmo at gmail.com
Sat Jun 22 12:04:11 UTC 2013


What about a disclaimer generated by the tor master site put at the top of
the mirrors list. "This page was last updated on XXXXX. If this date is
older than XXXX weeks/days ago, you may want to try another mirror in this
list for a more up to date copy of Tor".


On Sat, Jun 22, 2013 at 7:00 AM,
<tor-mirrors-request at lists.torproject.org>wrote:

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> Today's Topics:
>
>    1. Re: Outdated mirrors hide / Link to the 'Mirrors' at      title
>       page (Taiga-san)
>    2. Re: Outdated mirrors hide / Link to the 'Mirrors' at title
>       page (Thwarth Wrhalthssen)
>    3. Re: Outdated mirrors hide / Link to the 'Mirrors' at title
>       page (Andrew Lewman)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2013 14:39:48 +0200
> From: "Taiga-san" <admin at taiga-san.net>
> To: "'mirroring the tor website and distribution directory'"
>         <tor-mirrors at lists.torproject.org>
> Subject: Re: [tor-mirrors] Outdated mirrors hide / Link to the
>         'Mirrors' at    title page
> Message-ID: <000001ce6e7c$6bff3310$43fd9930$@taiga-san.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain;       charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> > It will run on user's computer and will try to access the other mirrors'
> timestamps and if it will discover, that the current mirror (on which
> script
> is executed) is definitely outdated, the warning and some links to
> up-to-date mirrors will appear. Maybe even automatic redirect.
> In other words you want some JavaScript code on the TOR page contacting a
> lot of different pages from an eventually outdated list silently in the
> background and additionally change the page wether the user wants it or
> not.
>
> JavaScript can compromise your privacy which is exactly why it's disabled
> in
> the TOR Browser. I'm not paranoid, however, if I'm looking for some strong
> privacy/anonymity proxy like TOR, there are some things I don't want so see
> like some JS contacting other sites, ads, lots of cookies etc.
>
>  > that the current mirror (on which script is executed)
> Well, you didn't mean server-side, still: I'm against server-side scripts.
> The PHP engine is disabled for the TOR mirror on my server and anything
> else
> like CGI, Perl, SSI etc. is globally disabled (module not loaded) and I
> won't change that.
>
> While I agree that there's the need of making it better, I can't imagine a
> good technical way to do it. That's probably why the things are like they
> are at the moment.
>
> PS: Sorry for any mistakes made.
>
> -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht-----
> Von: tor-mirrors [mailto:tor-mirrors-bounces at lists.torproject.org] Im
> Auftrag von Thwarth Wrhalthssen
> Gesendet: Freitag, 21. Juni 2013 13:22
> An: mirroring the tor website and distribution directory
> Betreff: Re: [tor-mirrors] Outdated mirrors hide / Link to the 'Mirrors' at
> title page
>
> > Mostly because people find the mirrors in search engine results, and
> > when it links to our page, they find they're out of date. This is a
> > hint to not use them.
> People, who should probably use a mirror, will not access the
> TorProject.org
> with actual statuses of mirrors. Instead, they will access some random
> mirror, possibly outdated, with the outdated mirror list. So, the
> information about a status of any particular mirror which they will gather
> from it, will be unuseful. So, I think there is no actually need in keeping
> outdated mirrors in the list non-hidden.
>
> > If torproject.org is blocked, finding the mirrors page isn't going to
> > help you.
>
> If TorProject.org is blocked, it will be a small chance to find an
> up-to-date mirror on the net. For now, if you find some mirror, you never
> know if it is updated or not. Apparently, there need to be a method to
> display the mirror status, maybe on the title page.
>
> Some script on the title page can be implemented, that will gather
> information from all known updated mirrors about latest actual timestamp.
> It
> will run on user's computer and will try to access the other mirrors'
> timestamps and if it will discover, that the current mirror (on which
> script
> is executed) is definitely outdated, the warning and some links to
> up-to-date mirrors will appear. Maybe even automatic redirect. I think it
> can be implemented easily and will add a plenty of accessibility and
> popularity to the mirrors.
>
> Suggestions from all the operators concerned are very welcome.
>
> On 06/20/2013 01:54 AM, Andrew Lewman wrote:
> > On Wed, 19 Jun 2013 11:27:47 +0400
> > Thwarth Wrhalthssen<wrhalthssen at ya.ru>  wrote:
> >
> >> I think the mirrors page should be redesigned a little. What is the
> >> purpose of displaying all outdated and non-accessible mirrors? The
> >> owners of such mirrors are barely interested in maintaining them, so,
> >> I think, the best option is just to remove or hide them from the
> >> list. If owner of such mirror is interested in running it updated,
> >> he'll notice, that his site isn't listed anymore, he'll update it and
> >> his mirror will show up again in the list. Additionaly, it would be
> >> great to add a Javascript code to the list to make it possible to
> >> filter mirrors by country and services accessible (and a tiny country
> >> flags, just for lucidity).
> > Mostly because people find the mirrors in search engine results, and
> > when it links to our page, they find they're out of date. This is a
> > hint to not use them.
> >
> > Frankly, the whole mirroring system needs a rewrite and update.
> >
> >> The second issue is the access to the mirrors page. For now you need
> >> to scroll down to the bottom page and find a tiny 'Mirrors' link in
> >> the 'Get Involved' section. Isn't it difficult enough? The Tor
> >> software is blocked in variety of countries and the mirrors are
> >> essential part of maintaining Tor website accessible, so isn't it
> >> right to make a link to the mirrors list somehow more accessible? I
> >> mean, for example, put 'Mirrors' list in the top navigation section
> >> ('Home', 'About Tor' etc). I believe lot of people failed to find
> >> this list just because it's location on the site is non-obvious.
> >> Maybe a crucial part of them are simply don't know the mirrors list
> >> exist.
> > Mostly because we know people find the mirrors via search engines, not
> > linking to our site. If torproject.org is blocked, finding the mirrors
> > page isn't going to help you.
> >
> > We're open to ideas here.
> >
> _______________________________________________
> tor-mirrors mailing list
> tor-mirrors at lists.torproject.org
> https://lists.torproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tor-mirrors
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2013 16:47:23 +0400
> From: Thwarth Wrhalthssen <wrhalthssen at ya.ru>
> To: mirroring the tor website and distribution directory
>         <tor-mirrors at lists.torproject.org>
> Subject: Re: [tor-mirrors] Outdated mirrors hide / Link to the
>         'Mirrors' at title page
> Message-ID: <51C44B5B.6000602 at ya.ru>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
>
> > >  that the current mirror (on which script is executed)
> > Well, you didn't mean server-side
> Yes, I meant a client script. I just discovered that the site really
> doesn't include any client-side scripts, so my suggestion to implement a
> script is useless due to this policy. Maybe someone can suggest
> something better.
>
> On 06/21/2013 04:39 PM, Taiga-san wrote:
> >> It will run on user's computer and will try to access the other mirrors'
> > timestamps and if it will discover, that the current mirror (on which
> script
> > is executed) is definitely outdated, the warning and some links to
> > up-to-date mirrors will appear. Maybe even automatic redirect.
> > In other words you want some JavaScript code on the TOR page contacting a
> > lot of different pages from an eventually outdated list silently in the
> > background and additionally change the page wether the user wants it or
> not.
> >
> > JavaScript can compromise your privacy which is exactly why it's
> disabled in
> > the TOR Browser. I'm not paranoid, however, if I'm looking for some
> strong
> > privacy/anonymity proxy like TOR, there are some things I don't want so
> see
> > like some JS contacting other sites, ads, lots of cookies etc.
> >
> >   >  that the current mirror (on which script is executed)
> > Well, you didn't mean server-side, still: I'm against server-side
> scripts.
> > The PHP engine is disabled for the TOR mirror on my server and anything
> else
> > like CGI, Perl, SSI etc. is globally disabled (module not loaded) and I
> > won't change that.
> >
> > While I agree that there's the need of making it better, I can't imagine
> a
> > good technical way to do it. That's probably why the things are like they
> > are at the moment.
> >
> > PS: Sorry for any mistakes made.
> >
> > -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht-----
> > Von: tor-mirrors [mailto:tor-mirrors-bounces at lists.torproject.org] Im
> > Auftrag von Thwarth Wrhalthssen
> > Gesendet: Freitag, 21. Juni 2013 13:22
> > An: mirroring the tor website and distribution directory
> > Betreff: Re: [tor-mirrors] Outdated mirrors hide / Link to the 'Mirrors'
> at
> > title page
> >
> >> Mostly because people find the mirrors in search engine results, and
> >> when it links to our page, they find they're out of date. This is a
> >> hint to not use them.
> > People, who should probably use a mirror, will not access the
> TorProject.org
> > with actual statuses of mirrors. Instead, they will access some random
> > mirror, possibly outdated, with the outdated mirror list. So, the
> > information about a status of any particular mirror which they will
> gather
> > from it, will be unuseful. So, I think there is no actually need in
> keeping
> > outdated mirrors in the list non-hidden.
> >
> >> If torproject.org is blocked, finding the mirrors page isn't going to
> >> help you.
> > If TorProject.org is blocked, it will be a small chance to find an
> > up-to-date mirror on the net. For now, if you find some mirror, you never
> > know if it is updated or not. Apparently, there need to be a method to
> > display the mirror status, maybe on the title page.
> >
> > Some script on the title page can be implemented, that will gather
> > information from all known updated mirrors about latest actual
> timestamp. It
> > will run on user's computer and will try to access the other mirrors'
> > timestamps and if it will discover, that the current mirror (on which
> script
> > is executed) is definitely outdated, the warning and some links to
> > up-to-date mirrors will appear. Maybe even automatic redirect. I think it
> > can be implemented easily and will add a plenty of accessibility and
> > popularity to the mirrors.
> >
> > Suggestions from all the operators concerned are very welcome.
> >
> > On 06/20/2013 01:54 AM, Andrew Lewman wrote:
> >> On Wed, 19 Jun 2013 11:27:47 +0400
> >> Thwarth Wrhalthssen<wrhalthssen at ya.ru>   wrote:
> >>
> >>> I think the mirrors page should be redesigned a little. What is the
> >>> purpose of displaying all outdated and non-accessible mirrors? The
> >>> owners of such mirrors are barely interested in maintaining them, so,
> >>> I think, the best option is just to remove or hide them from the
> >>> list. If owner of such mirror is interested in running it updated,
> >>> he'll notice, that his site isn't listed anymore, he'll update it and
> >>> his mirror will show up again in the list. Additionaly, it would be
> >>> great to add a Javascript code to the list to make it possible to
> >>> filter mirrors by country and services accessible (and a tiny country
> >>> flags, just for lucidity).
> >> Mostly because people find the mirrors in search engine results, and
> >> when it links to our page, they find they're out of date. This is a
> >> hint to not use them.
> >>
> >> Frankly, the whole mirroring system needs a rewrite and update.
> >>
> >>> The second issue is the access to the mirrors page. For now you need
> >>> to scroll down to the bottom page and find a tiny 'Mirrors' link in
> >>> the 'Get Involved' section. Isn't it difficult enough? The Tor
> >>> software is blocked in variety of countries and the mirrors are
> >>> essential part of maintaining Tor website accessible, so isn't it
> >>> right to make a link to the mirrors list somehow more accessible? I
> >>> mean, for example, put 'Mirrors' list in the top navigation section
> >>> ('Home', 'About Tor' etc). I believe lot of people failed to find
> >>> this list just because it's location on the site is non-obvious.
> >>> Maybe a crucial part of them are simply don't know the mirrors list
> >>> exist.
> >> Mostly because we know people find the mirrors via search engines, not
> >> linking to our site. If torproject.org is blocked, finding the mirrors
> >> page isn't going to help you.
> >>
> >> We're open to ideas here.
> >>
> > _______________________________________________
> > tor-mirrors mailing list
> > tor-mirrors at lists.torproject.org
> > https://lists.torproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tor-mirrors
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > tor-mirrors mailing list
> > tor-mirrors at lists.torproject.org
> > https://lists.torproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tor-mirrors
> >
> >
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2013 12:30:56 -0400
> From: Andrew Lewman <andrew at torproject.is>
> To: tor-mirrors at lists.torproject.org
> Subject: Re: [tor-mirrors] Outdated mirrors hide / Link to the
>         'Mirrors' at title page
> Message-ID: <20130621123056.4cb9258a at kilik>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
>
> On Fri, 21 Jun 2013 14:39:48 +0200
> "Taiga-san" <admin at taiga-san.net> wrote:
>
> > JavaScript can compromise your privacy which is exactly why it's
> > disabled in the TOR Browser. I'm not paranoid, however, if I'm
> > looking for some strong privacy/anonymity proxy like TOR, there are
> > some things I don't want so see like some JS contacting other sites,
> > ads, lots of cookies etc.
>
> javascript is enabled in tor browser. See
> https://www.torproject.org/docs/faq.html.en#TBBJavaScriptEnabled
>
> > While I agree that there's the need of making it better, I can't
> > imagine a good technical way to do it. That's probably why the things
> > are like they are at the moment.
>
> There are some open tickets on this:
>
> https://trac.torproject.org/projects/tor/ticket/6978
>
> and
>
> https://trac.torproject.org/projects/tor/ticket/3947
>
>
> --
> Andrew
> http://tpo.is/contact
> pgp 0x6B4D6475
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Subject: Digest Footer
>
> _______________________________________________
> tor-mirrors mailing list
> tor-mirrors at lists.torproject.org
> https://lists.torproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tor-mirrors
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> End of tor-mirrors Digest, Vol 25, Issue 10
> *******************************************
>
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