[tor-dev] . tor-roster's geo diversity badge and self-ref relays

Sean Saito saitosean at ymail.com
Sun Sep 13 08:18:41 UTC 2015

Hi nusenu,

>Do you consider in-family diversity so important - even though all of
>them are run by a single entity anyway?
> How about having a badge for tor network wide diversity?
> I'd consider the tor network's overall diversity far more important than
> in-family diversity because clients won't use more than one relay of a
> given family anyway.

Entire-network diversity is obviously more important than within-operator diversity---no doubt 
about that.   We are doing within-operator diversity simply because the it's easier to 
measure/understand.  I agree that measuring a family's relay diversity with respect to the 
entire Tor network is would be supplementary, maybe even strictly better. I am already logging 
relevant data, namely the number of relays per country and total CW per country (as you 
suggested previously). The former stastic could be used for badges like "First relay in country 

>More than 4/5 of the family's CW is located in countries with a cw lower
>than 2%* (currently means non-top 7 country) and ASes lower than 1.5%*
>(currently means non-top 8 AS)?
>That implies some degree of in-family diversity since a big family would
>have to spread across multiple countries/ASes

Although there have been some interesting discussions about which ASes to prioritize in putting 
new relays, an actual concrete numerical measure is thus far an unsolved problem.  Virgil and I 
have talked about using a new tool (http://labs.apnic.net/vizas/) to observe which ASes have 
more interconnections and award bonus points to new relays on them.  When these measures become 
better established definitely in favor of making badges for them (perhaps even replacing the 
within-operator diversity badges?).

>"No Self-Referencing Relays"
>I'm not sure what exactly you mean by that but I assume it is a MyFamily
>config where a relay includes his own fingerprint. Why does that hurt?
>The unnecessary descriptor space/bw?

This is something Virgil wanted because he thought self-connections were ugly.  If the 
penalizing of self-connections is found to be uglier than the self-connections themselves, we're 
both fine with removing it.

Hope this answers your questions. Thanks for the feedback!


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