[global-south] greetings

mini mini at riseup.net
Wed Oct 25 15:48:08 UTC 2017

On 10/20/2017 10:55 AM, George wrote:
> Vasilis:
>> Ola!
>> Welcome on board George and Mini!
> Glad to be here, and should have been here earlier.
>> mini:
>>> On 10/18/2017 10:40 AM, George wrote:
>>>> gus:
>>>> Maybe it makes sense to work from the meeting notes, including for
>>>> people on this list that weren't there:
>>>> https://trac.torproject.org/projects/tor/wiki/org/meetings/2017Montreal/Notes/TorOutsideOfFiveEyes
>>>> And there's also this:
>>>> https://trac.torproject.org/projects/tor/wiki/org/meetings/2017Montreal/Notes/GlobalSouth
>> Indeed makes sense, let's start working from the meeting notes maybe
>> starting a new thread may help to find the discussion later.
> That makes sense.  Maybe I start the thread with listing the meeting
> notes in an email.
> I wildly appreciate that everyone is replying inline and not top-posting.
>> A list of relevant sessions on the last Tor meeting (please add any
>> notes that you may have):
>> *
>> https://trac.torproject.org/projects/tor/wiki/org/meetings/2017Montreal/Notes/RelaySession
>> *
>> https://trac.torproject.org/projects/tor/wiki/org/meetings/2017Montreal/Notes/TorOutsideOfFiveEyes
>> *
>> https://trac.torproject.org/projects/tor/wiki/org/meetings/2017Montreal/Notes/CommunityTeam/CommunityTeamMeeting
>> *
>> https://trac.torproject.org/projects/tor/wiki/org/meetings/2017Montreal/Notes/TorRelayOperators
>> *
>> https://trac.torproject.org/projects/tor/wiki/org/meetings/2017Montreal/Notes/GlobalSouth
>> Also added the notes taken from the last Tor meetup in Buenos Aires
>> (thank Juliana) if you have any further notes please add them here:
>> https://trac.torproject.org/projects/tor/wiki/org/meetings/2017BuenosAiresMeetup
> Great stuff.
>>> * I can try to promote the GS list, maybe a GS-espaƱol list?
>>> * And also help with meetups in Argentina/bs as,
>> That will be great, let me/us know if you need any help to prepare the
>> meetups. I have a bunch of various Tor stickers that are stacked up and
>> ready to be shipped to the eko.space. :)
> The question of a Spanish-language list came up in discussion.  I
> believe the conclusion was "yes, if we have the critical mass"
We could start by writing here in spanish then? and if there is enough
volume  we could go to another list?

>>> * I dont think that the language is a problem at least for running
>>> relays and exit nodes, the problem we have here is more related to the
>>> legal system, for example if you run an exit node in a hacklab the
>>> police could come with an order and seize ALL the equipement in the lab
>>> for at least 2 or 3 years, this has already happened.
>> Derechos digitales in Chile may probably provide legal help.
>> I remember Ilv mentioned that there is a plan of an accepted proposal
>> that could support Tor relays operators in LATAM with legal help.
> That would certainly be something to promote on this and Tor
> Spanish-language lists.  Developing a layer of Tor speakers/presentation
> submitters is critical.
>>> * If you need help traducing things to spanish we can help with that.
>> Translating *tor resources such as documentation, relay configuration
>> examples, torproject website.
>> Currently the torproject website has no support for i18n, there were a
>> number of talks about how we can improve this but it seems that Colin
>> (CCed) may have an idea or more concrete plan on how we can translate
>> the website without waiting for longer time until we have a new website
>> that supports i18n.
> I kept Colin in the cc.  We should probably make a list of documentation
> to translate in priority order.  I know my TDP collaborators can help in
> a bunch of the languages.
> On a similar note, there was a study over the past few years of most
> common *second* languages around the globe, which differs more than
> imagined.
> I will try to dig it up, but the point was that languages like Russian,
> for instance, have a limited count when it comes to being the primary
> language, but as a second language it's widely used. Think of Spanish in
> .br, the US, also.
>>>> IIRC, there was a discussion about expanding the focus of this list to
>>>> "Tor Poor" areas, not just the Global South.
>>> tor poor and global south sounds quite peyorative, its kind of like
>>> saying the colonialist north tor meeting.  :(
>> I highly agree with Mini both names sound awful!
> Utterly atrocious!  Yes, no insult intended at all Mini, it was allowing
> this list to be broad enough to also allow space for areas with low Tor
> representation, which is true in all corners of the globe.
I know the intention is not to insult, but to help , I truly believe
that, but I felt that it would be a good idea to explain how it feels
from the south. \o/
> Look at this ranking of country code by consensus weight:
> https://torbsd.github.io/oostats/relays-cweight-by-cc.txt
> It's shocking that a number of east Asian countries (like Japan and
> Korea) have such few relays considering that they have some of the best
> connectivity in the world.
>> During the Tor meeting we brainstormed a bit for a better name but it
>> didn't come up with one yet.
>> Finding good names is always hard! :)
> "minusFiveEyes"? ;)
>>>> Our TDP stats could be useful here, particularly when looking at
>>>> countries and ASs with weak or no Tor presence.
>>>> https://torbsd.github.io/oostats.html
>> Great website George, I guess this can be used and easily adjusted to
>> people that like HTML and text only websites. ;)
> Yes, we live in ASCII land.  Here's the code, which just needs Perl, jq
> (json query) and a POSIX compliant shell:
> https://github.com/torbsd/tdp-onion-stats/
>> "For now we are updating the reports manually every week and only
>> producing plain text. HTML output and automated updates are in the works."
>> "last updated: Sun Sep 3 14:07:32 2017 UTC"
>> It seems that the stats are being updated regularly (daily?), Relay
>> Reports and Bridge Reports are all set with Report Date: Wed Oct 18
>> 22:46:25 UTC 2017. Are the reports generated automatically now or is it
>> just a coincidence?
> Still manual and we do it often, but it will be automated when we
> migrate the www off GitHub.
>> During the Tor meeting we played a bit with the Tor metrics data and R
>> we can find the result here:
>> https://github.com/arthuredelstein/metrics-playground that generated a
>> some beatiful plots:
>> https://github.com/arthuredelstein/metrics-playground/blob/master/Rplots.pdf
> Interesting... I'll play with this a bit.
>>>> More specifically, I think we were talking about a focus on .br .ar .cl
>>> I can talk about Argentina,  there is a strong community here, some of
>>> the members run relays or exit node  using vpn's or vps. There is an
>>> event called Grog&Tor that has been going for almost 2 years, its kind
>>> of like a cryptoparty but focused on tor, free software and privacy,
>>> this event is done every month. 
>> I wasn't aware about the Grog&Tor event
>> (https://wiki.partidopirata.com.ar/GrogTor), it seems that they have
>> monthly IRC meetups
>> (https://wiki.partidopirata.com.ar/GrogTor#.C2.A1Quiero_ir.21) that are
>> easier for us to attend.
>> Do you know when is the next Grog&Tor event/meetup?
>>> This year there was a talk about tor
>>> exit nodes and the argentinian legal system at the ekoparty[1] (I think
>>> is the biggest security conference in latin america, like a global south
>>> defcon).
>> Is there any audio/video material or notes of the talk?
>> It will be super useful to add all these events, groups, talks,
>> conferences, ... to the Tor wiki as it may help people that would like
>> to jump on the boat and help.
> Absolutely, and good stuff.
> g
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