Re: [tor-mirrors] tor-mirrors Digest, Vol 25, Issue 10
What about a disclaimer generated by the tor master site put at the top of the mirrors list. "This page was last updated on XXXXX. If this date is older than XXXX weeks/days ago, you may want to try another mirror in this list for a more up to date copy of Tor". On Sat, Jun 22, 2013 at 7:00 AM, <tor-mirrors-request@lists.torproject.org>wrote:
Send tor-mirrors mailing list submissions to tor-mirrors@lists.torproject.org
To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit https://lists.torproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tor-mirrors or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to tor-mirrors-request@lists.torproject.org
You can reach the person managing the list at tor-mirrors-owner@lists.torproject.org
When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of tor-mirrors digest..."
Today's Topics:
1. Re: Outdated mirrors hide / Link to the 'Mirrors' at title page (Taiga-san) 2. Re: Outdated mirrors hide / Link to the 'Mirrors' at title page (Thwarth Wrhalthssen) 3. Re: Outdated mirrors hide / Link to the 'Mirrors' at title page (Andrew Lewman)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1 Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2013 14:39:48 +0200 From: "Taiga-san" <admin@taiga-san.net> To: "'mirroring the tor website and distribution directory'" <tor-mirrors@lists.torproject.org> Subject: Re: [tor-mirrors] Outdated mirrors hide / Link to the 'Mirrors' at title page Message-ID: <000001ce6e7c$6bff3310$43fd9930$@taiga-san.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
It will run on user's computer and will try to access the other mirrors' timestamps and if it will discover, that the current mirror (on which script is executed) is definitely outdated, the warning and some links to up-to-date mirrors will appear. Maybe even automatic redirect. In other words you want some JavaScript code on the TOR page contacting a lot of different pages from an eventually outdated list silently in the background and additionally change the page wether the user wants it or not.
JavaScript can compromise your privacy which is exactly why it's disabled in the TOR Browser. I'm not paranoid, however, if I'm looking for some strong privacy/anonymity proxy like TOR, there are some things I don't want so see like some JS contacting other sites, ads, lots of cookies etc.
that the current mirror (on which script is executed) Well, you didn't mean server-side, still: I'm against server-side scripts. The PHP engine is disabled for the TOR mirror on my server and anything else like CGI, Perl, SSI etc. is globally disabled (module not loaded) and I won't change that.
While I agree that there's the need of making it better, I can't imagine a good technical way to do it. That's probably why the things are like they are at the moment.
PS: Sorry for any mistakes made.
-----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- Von: tor-mirrors [mailto:tor-mirrors-bounces@lists.torproject.org] Im Auftrag von Thwarth Wrhalthssen Gesendet: Freitag, 21. Juni 2013 13:22 An: mirroring the tor website and distribution directory Betreff: Re: [tor-mirrors] Outdated mirrors hide / Link to the 'Mirrors' at title page
Mostly because people find the mirrors in search engine results, and when it links to our page, they find they're out of date. This is a hint to not use them. People, who should probably use a mirror, will not access the TorProject.org with actual statuses of mirrors. Instead, they will access some random mirror, possibly outdated, with the outdated mirror list. So, the information about a status of any particular mirror which they will gather from it, will be unuseful. So, I think there is no actually need in keeping outdated mirrors in the list non-hidden.
If torproject.org is blocked, finding the mirrors page isn't going to help you.
If TorProject.org is blocked, it will be a small chance to find an up-to-date mirror on the net. For now, if you find some mirror, you never know if it is updated or not. Apparently, there need to be a method to display the mirror status, maybe on the title page.
Some script on the title page can be implemented, that will gather information from all known updated mirrors about latest actual timestamp. It will run on user's computer and will try to access the other mirrors' timestamps and if it will discover, that the current mirror (on which script is executed) is definitely outdated, the warning and some links to up-to-date mirrors will appear. Maybe even automatic redirect. I think it can be implemented easily and will add a plenty of accessibility and popularity to the mirrors.
Suggestions from all the operators concerned are very welcome.
On 06/20/2013 01:54 AM, Andrew Lewman wrote:
On Wed, 19 Jun 2013 11:27:47 +0400 Thwarth Wrhalthssen<wrhalthssen@ya.ru> wrote:
I think the mirrors page should be redesigned a little. What is the purpose of displaying all outdated and non-accessible mirrors? The owners of such mirrors are barely interested in maintaining them, so, I think, the best option is just to remove or hide them from the list. If owner of such mirror is interested in running it updated, he'll notice, that his site isn't listed anymore, he'll update it and his mirror will show up again in the list. Additionaly, it would be great to add a Javascript code to the list to make it possible to filter mirrors by country and services accessible (and a tiny country flags, just for lucidity). Mostly because people find the mirrors in search engine results, and when it links to our page, they find they're out of date. This is a hint to not use them.
Frankly, the whole mirroring system needs a rewrite and update.
The second issue is the access to the mirrors page. For now you need to scroll down to the bottom page and find a tiny 'Mirrors' link in the 'Get Involved' section. Isn't it difficult enough? The Tor software is blocked in variety of countries and the mirrors are essential part of maintaining Tor website accessible, so isn't it right to make a link to the mirrors list somehow more accessible? I mean, for example, put 'Mirrors' list in the top navigation section ('Home', 'About Tor' etc). I believe lot of people failed to find this list just because it's location on the site is non-obvious. Maybe a crucial part of them are simply don't know the mirrors list exist. Mostly because we know people find the mirrors via search engines, not linking to our site. If torproject.org is blocked, finding the mirrors page isn't going to help you.
We're open to ideas here.
_______________________________________________ tor-mirrors mailing list tor-mirrors@lists.torproject.org https://lists.torproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tor-mirrors
------------------------------
Message: 2 Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2013 16:47:23 +0400 From: Thwarth Wrhalthssen <wrhalthssen@ya.ru> To: mirroring the tor website and distribution directory <tor-mirrors@lists.torproject.org> Subject: Re: [tor-mirrors] Outdated mirrors hide / Link to the 'Mirrors' at title page Message-ID: <51C44B5B.6000602@ya.ru> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
that the current mirror (on which script is executed) Well, you didn't mean server-side Yes, I meant a client script. I just discovered that the site really doesn't include any client-side scripts, so my suggestion to implement a script is useless due to this policy. Maybe someone can suggest something better.
On 06/21/2013 04:39 PM, Taiga-san wrote:
It will run on user's computer and will try to access the other mirrors' timestamps and if it will discover, that the current mirror (on which script is executed) is definitely outdated, the warning and some links to up-to-date mirrors will appear. Maybe even automatic redirect. In other words you want some JavaScript code on the TOR page contacting a lot of different pages from an eventually outdated list silently in the background and additionally change the page wether the user wants it or not.
JavaScript can compromise your privacy which is exactly why it's disabled in the TOR Browser. I'm not paranoid, however, if I'm looking for some strong privacy/anonymity proxy like TOR, there are some things I don't want so see like some JS contacting other sites, ads, lots of cookies etc.
that the current mirror (on which script is executed) Well, you didn't mean server-side, still: I'm against server-side scripts. The PHP engine is disabled for the TOR mirror on my server and anything else like CGI, Perl, SSI etc. is globally disabled (module not loaded) and I won't change that.
While I agree that there's the need of making it better, I can't imagine a good technical way to do it. That's probably why the things are like they are at the moment.
PS: Sorry for any mistakes made.
-----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- Von: tor-mirrors [mailto:tor-mirrors-bounces@lists.torproject.org] Im Auftrag von Thwarth Wrhalthssen Gesendet: Freitag, 21. Juni 2013 13:22 An: mirroring the tor website and distribution directory Betreff: Re: [tor-mirrors] Outdated mirrors hide / Link to the 'Mirrors' at title page
Mostly because people find the mirrors in search engine results, and when it links to our page, they find they're out of date. This is a hint to not use them. People, who should probably use a mirror, will not access the TorProject.org with actual statuses of mirrors. Instead, they will access some random mirror, possibly outdated, with the outdated mirror list. So, the information about a status of any particular mirror which they will gather from it, will be unuseful. So, I think there is no actually need in keeping outdated mirrors in the list non-hidden.
If torproject.org is blocked, finding the mirrors page isn't going to help you. If TorProject.org is blocked, it will be a small chance to find an up-to-date mirror on the net. For now, if you find some mirror, you never know if it is updated or not. Apparently, there need to be a method to display the mirror status, maybe on the title page.
Some script on the title page can be implemented, that will gather information from all known updated mirrors about latest actual timestamp. It will run on user's computer and will try to access the other mirrors' timestamps and if it will discover, that the current mirror (on which script is executed) is definitely outdated, the warning and some links to up-to-date mirrors will appear. Maybe even automatic redirect. I think it can be implemented easily and will add a plenty of accessibility and popularity to the mirrors.
Suggestions from all the operators concerned are very welcome.
On 06/20/2013 01:54 AM, Andrew Lewman wrote:
On Wed, 19 Jun 2013 11:27:47 +0400 Thwarth Wrhalthssen<wrhalthssen@ya.ru> wrote:
I think the mirrors page should be redesigned a little. What is the purpose of displaying all outdated and non-accessible mirrors? The owners of such mirrors are barely interested in maintaining them, so, I think, the best option is just to remove or hide them from the list. If owner of such mirror is interested in running it updated, he'll notice, that his site isn't listed anymore, he'll update it and his mirror will show up again in the list. Additionaly, it would be great to add a Javascript code to the list to make it possible to filter mirrors by country and services accessible (and a tiny country flags, just for lucidity). Mostly because people find the mirrors in search engine results, and when it links to our page, they find they're out of date. This is a hint to not use them.
Frankly, the whole mirroring system needs a rewrite and update.
The second issue is the access to the mirrors page. For now you need to scroll down to the bottom page and find a tiny 'Mirrors' link in the 'Get Involved' section. Isn't it difficult enough? The Tor software is blocked in variety of countries and the mirrors are essential part of maintaining Tor website accessible, so isn't it right to make a link to the mirrors list somehow more accessible? I mean, for example, put 'Mirrors' list in the top navigation section ('Home', 'About Tor' etc). I believe lot of people failed to find this list just because it's location on the site is non-obvious. Maybe a crucial part of them are simply don't know the mirrors list exist. Mostly because we know people find the mirrors via search engines, not linking to our site. If torproject.org is blocked, finding the mirrors page isn't going to help you.
We're open to ideas here.
_______________________________________________ tor-mirrors mailing list tor-mirrors@lists.torproject.org https://lists.torproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tor-mirrors
_______________________________________________ tor-mirrors mailing list tor-mirrors@lists.torproject.org https://lists.torproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tor-mirrors
------------------------------
Message: 3 Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2013 12:30:56 -0400 From: Andrew Lewman <andrew@torproject.is> To: tor-mirrors@lists.torproject.org Subject: Re: [tor-mirrors] Outdated mirrors hide / Link to the 'Mirrors' at title page Message-ID: <20130621123056.4cb9258a@kilik> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
On Fri, 21 Jun 2013 14:39:48 +0200 "Taiga-san" <admin@taiga-san.net> wrote:
JavaScript can compromise your privacy which is exactly why it's disabled in the TOR Browser. I'm not paranoid, however, if I'm looking for some strong privacy/anonymity proxy like TOR, there are some things I don't want so see like some JS contacting other sites, ads, lots of cookies etc.
javascript is enabled in tor browser. See https://www.torproject.org/docs/faq.html.en#TBBJavaScriptEnabled
While I agree that there's the need of making it better, I can't imagine a good technical way to do it. That's probably why the things are like they are at the moment.
There are some open tickets on this:
https://trac.torproject.org/projects/tor/ticket/6978
and
https://trac.torproject.org/projects/tor/ticket/3947
-- Andrew http://tpo.is/contact pgp 0x6B4D6475
------------------------------
Subject: Digest Footer
_______________________________________________ tor-mirrors mailing list tor-mirrors@lists.torproject.org https://lists.torproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tor-mirrors
------------------------------
End of tor-mirrors Digest, Vol 25, Issue 10 *******************************************
participants (1)
-
Dustin Hess