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Good morning,<br /><br />I'm still learning about Tor and online data protection, and only recently signed up for this mailing list. I was wondering where this adage comes from: <br /><br />"I'm reminded the adage "VPN before Tor, FBI at the door.""<br /><br />I recently started using a VPN service (VyprVPN currently, though I have tried Cryptostorm and Tunnelbear as well), and am now experimenting with using a Tor browser both on my Android phone as well as on my laptop (dual Linux Mint/Windows 7). <br /><br />While I presume that using the Tor network raises alarms for anyone monitoring traffic (it must mean you have something to hide, right?), I was assuming that it would be a good idea to use both Tor AND a VPN service. So that any lost packages would still be within the VPN. But this adage seems to say that it is actually a bad idea to do both? Why? <br /><br />Would you mind clarifying this a little please?<br /><br />Many thanks in advance,<br />Erik<br /><br /><br />22. Jan 2016 13:00 by <a href="mailto:tor-teachers-request@lists.torproject.org" target="_blank">tor-teachers-request@lists.torproject.org</a>:<br /><br /><blockquote class="tutanota_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid #93A3B8; padding-left: 10px; margin-left: 5px;">Send tor-teachers mailing list submissions to<br /> <a target="_blank" href="mailto:tor-teachers@lists.torproject.org">tor-teachers@lists.torproject.org</a><br /><br />To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit<br /> <a target="_blank" href="https://lists.torproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tor-teachers">https://lists.torproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tor-teachers</a><br />or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to<br /> <a target="_blank" href="mailto:tor-teachers-request@lists.torproject.org">tor-teachers-request@lists.torproject.org</a><br /><br />You can reach the person managing the list at<br /> <a target="_blank" href="mailto:tor-teachers-owner@lists.torproject.org">tor-teachers-owner@lists.torproject.org</a><br /><br />When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific<br />than "Re: Contents of tor-teachers digest..."<br /><br /><br />Today's Topics:<br /><br /> 1. Re: Surveillance, Privacy, Networks and Encryption v2<br /> (Kenneth Freeman)<br /><br /><br />----------------------------------------------------------------------<br /><br />Message: 1<br />Date: Thu, 21 Jan 2016 17:08:21 -0700<br />From: Kenneth Freeman <<a target="_blank" href="mailto:kencf0618@riseup.net">kencf0618@riseup.net</a>><br />To: List to be used by Tor teachers and trainers to build a<br /> "community," circulate training materials and get feedback<br /> <<a target="_blank" href="mailto:tor-teachers@lists.torproject.org">tor-teachers@lists.torproject.org</a>><br />Subject: Re: [tor-teachers] Surveillance, Privacy, Networks and<br /> Encryption v2<br />Message-ID: <<a target="_blank" href="mailto:56A172F5.2020004@riseup.net">56A172F5.2020004@riseup.net</a>><br />Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"<br /><br /><br /><br />On 01/21/2016 05:40 AM, Hugo Maxwell Connery wrote:<blockquote>Hi,<br /><br />Thanks to some very helpful comments by Paul Syverson I offer<br />a second, much improved version of this document.<br /><br />Its the same "conversational" style providing a ground up<br />description of the surveillance and anonymity problem for<br />a low tech audience with a reasonably aware teacher. This<br />includes how proxies and VPNs provide only partial solutions <br />to these problems and how Tor provides a much better solution.<br /><br />I also present a collection of general attacks against Tor<br />and briefly show the challenges that they entail. Again,<br />this is as 'no-tech' as possible.</blockquote><br />I'm reminded the adage "VPN before Tor, FBI at the door."<br /><br />Speaking of which, I've had the opportunity recently to hear an FBI<br />special agent speak at a private function, and believe me, if you ever<br />have an opportunity to speak to an FBI special agent without the need<br />for an attorney to represent you, grab it. Their public input in and of<br />itself is very interesting on several levels...<br /><br />The man said that Tor is a very good product, and (admittedly<br />anecdotally) that he encounters it, if only tangentially, in 20% of his<br />investigations, mostly terrorism investigations.<br /><br />Tor itself gives talks to law enforcement agencies; it behoves all<br />parties involved to know the drill, savvy? OODA-loop stuff.<br /><br /><br />-------------- next part --------------<br />A non-text attachment was scrubbed...<br />Name: signature.asc<br />Type: application/pgp-signature<br />Size: 836 bytes<br />Desc: OpenPGP digital signature<br />URL: <<a target="_blank" href="http://lists.torproject.org/pipermail/tor-teachers/attachments/20160121/3e8e81c4/attachment-0001.sig">http://lists.torproject.org/pipermail/tor-teachers/attachments/20160121/3e8e81c4/attachment-0001.sig</a>><br /><br />------------------------------<br /><br />Subject: Digest Footer<br /><br />_______________________________________________<br />tor-teachers mailing list<br /><a target="_blank" href="mailto:tor-teachers@lists.torproject.org">tor-teachers@lists.torproject.org</a><br /><a target="_blank" href="https://lists.torproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tor-teachers">https://lists.torproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tor-teachers</a><br /><br /><br />------------------------------<br /><br />End of tor-teachers Digest, Vol 5, Issue 4<br />******************************************</blockquote> </body>
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