Hello <br> I just hardly can't believe it what I am hearing about this. From what I get, it sounds like a full on assault on privacy and free speech, the things that make the internet good, has begun.<br> I am very sorry to hear the news and am very upset for everybody, especially those in Europe where this seems to be starting. <br> Am I to believe from the foregoing that potentially having to surrender a Tor servers logs (that do not compromise much) will actually make Tor server operators criminals because they don't "reveal"
enough?<br> Algenon<br><br><b><i>"Hans S." <toronall@Safe-mail.net></i></b> wrote:<blockquote class="replbq" style="border-left: 2px solid rgb(16, 16, 255); margin-left: 5px; padding-left: 5px;"> -------- Original Message --------<br>From: Marco Gruss <kork@kork.dyndns.org><br>Apparently from: owner-or-talk@freehaven.net<br>To: or-talk@freehaven.net<br>Subject: Re: 20090101 (log data)<br>Date: Sun, 11 Nov 2007 16:27:39 +0100<br><br>> Hi,<br>> <br>> TOR
Admin (gpfTOR1) wrote:<br>> > I will try it for email (fon, mobile and sms may be nearly like this):<br>> For mobile calls and SMS messages, the cell location of the caller/<br>> sender at the beginning of the call must be recorded.<br>> <br>> Pretty ugly, IMHO.<br>> <br>> Marco<br><br>Hi,<br><br>the big, but yet not loud enough protests in Germany about these "new"<br>laws do imho relate to the fact that there are much older laws. These<br>protected exactly against the use of grids of databases concerning citizens,<br>the obligation to deliver data to authorities and to to create grids with<br>for good reasons separate data for authorities. So the big "They" create new<br>laws explicitely enforcing what was prohibited yesterday.<br> How successfull or actually working that was in daily life is another<br> question.<br><br>Deep trust in promotional and mass manipulating abilities make me believe<br>that in a not too far future all these doings
may be socially anticipated<br>by the majority and accepted as necessary. Reasons? The usual.<br>Paedorists.<br><br>To my knowledge not all (or only few) of states have or ever had this<br>'limited ability' in treating their citizens data. Of course there also<br>are a few with a higher valency of human rights.<br><br>There is a background to what has happened in DE right now, also<br>concerning our friends from Suomi (hope that's right) as well as people<br>(friends, too, of course;) from Italy and presently 48 other States.<br><br>The bigger picture appears to be the so called "Convention on Cybercrime",<br>which our beloved goverment (DE) wishes to ratify.<br><br>Please take a look at:<br><br>(0) The Treaty (choose #185), english, french <br>(1) The list of states involved, english <br>(2) Is where I found (1), german. <br>(3) Foebud's website, german<br><br>As obvious and natural members of a Council of Europe, the US, Japan,<br>Azerbaijan, Turkey, South-Africa and
others are also supposed to, are<br>about to, or already have ratified the mentioned paper. Moving servers to<br>Russia ? See list. (although the Russians didn't even care to sign it,<br>yet ...)<br><br>The treaty (0) is concerned about what they call mutual assisstance<br>in fighting computer related crime and the usual paedorist stuff. <br>The treaty itself is absolutely horrifying and has effects much further than<br>Germany and Europe, reaching out to the US and elsewhere. Article<br>20 and 21 are interesting, they might be the reason for our law. The<br>german gov. and others simply shift the costs of getting and storing data<br>essential for the intended surveillance. According to the treaty the<br>goverments are obliged to somehow get hold of tha data. So they make a<br>law forcing isp's and other service providers to do so. Awfully simple.<br><br>Read Article 23 and further about international co-operation agreements.<br>According to this, telco data can
and shall be made available to<br>authorities of the enlisted states on request and spontanously for the<br>purpose of criminal investigation. Hurray.<br><br>So far, so bad, but even worse, data then will leave the originating<br>legislation. Of course will, lets say the Ukrainian police obey e.g<br>german law how long to store and how to use or where to pass data to. (I<br>do not have any problems with or about Ukrania or Ukranians, just an<br>example.) So, what happens, if data becomes to be very easily available to<br>states who never really cared about such odd things like civil rights?<br>Welcome to an international legal marketplace for telco data.<br><br>With a little phantasy we might imagine yottabytes (really much) of logs<br>being analyzed by whoever wants to, profiling of individuals and tracking<br>just about anything in communication, and this on a pretty much<br>international scale. Every day. Is that new? No, but new in that extent.<br><br>Some people
might end up in Guantanamo or some other weirdo's prison<br>without ever knowing what actually hit them. Nowadays mere suspicion is<br>enough, we have learned.<br><br>Quite a nightmare.<br><br>As soon as this law in Germany comes into force on 01.01.2009 Tor-ops<br>_may_ have to hand over logs on request. It does not criminalize<br>operators of a node.<br><br>Tor's purpose is to provide anonymous access to the net. Period. So how<br>much this analyzing of nodes will break anonymity is the interesting<br>part...<br><br>I personally begin to look around for places to set up my node (and<br>myself;) in other parts of the world.<br><br><br>Suggestions are welcome.<br><br><br><br>Regards<br><br>Hans<br><br><br>(0)http://conventions.coe.int/Treaty/Commun/ListeTraites.asp?CM=8&CL=ENG<br>(1)http://conventions.coe.int/Treaty/Commun/ChercheSig.asp?NT=185&CM=&DF=&CL=ENG<br>(2)http://www.tecchannel.de/pc_mobile/news/1738342/
<br>(3)http://www.foebud.org/datenschutz-buergerrechte/vorratsdatenspeicherung/weitergabe-von-kommunikationsprofilen<br></kork@kork.dyndns.org></blockquote><br><p> __________________________________________________<br>Do You Yahoo!?<br>Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around <br>http://mail.yahoo.com