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<div>When reading this i am glad i live in germany.<br/>
We still have some laws which protect operators of TOR-Exits :)</div>
<div><br/>
https://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/tmg/__5.html</div>
<div>https://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/tmg/__8.html</div>
<div>https://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/tmg/__15.html</div>
<div>(perhaps try to translate them with google)<br/>
<br/>
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<div style="margin:0 0 10px 0;"><b>Gesendet:</b> Dienstag, 01. November 2016 um 01:03 Uhr<br/>
<b>Von:</b> I <beatthebastards@inbox.com><br/>
<b>An:</b> tor-relays@lists.torproject.org<br/>
<b>Betreff:</b> Re: [tor-relays] Interrogated by Finnish police for alleged idendity crimes, fraud and attempts of fraud</div>
<div name="quoted-content">An excellent approach<br/>
<br/>
> -----Original Message-----<br/>
> From: julien.robin28@free.fr<br/>
> Sent: Mon, 31 Oct 2016 23:16:53 +0100<br/>
> To: tor-relays@lists.torproject.org<br/>
> Subject: Re: [tor-relays] Interrogated by Finnish police for alleged<br/>
> idendity crimes, fraud and attempts of fraud<br/>
><br/>
> Hi,<br/>
><br/>
> With the 3 big exit nodes I had in France (about 30MB/s in both<br/>
> direction for each of them), I got called by police a lot of time (may<br/>
> be 10 times approximately ? I do not really count anymore) on<br/>
> investigations about misdeed that was committed from IP addresses of my<br/>
> Tor relays (95.130.9.190 and 95.130.9.89 mainly, at Digicube, not<br/>
> running anymore since June, 2015). No call about the Online.net one<br/>
> (62.210.206.25, now Relay only since January, 2015), which was as big as<br/>
> the 2 others and Exit too, but the ISP is well known as servers and<br/>
> website big provider in France so I guess they realize it's an exit node<br/>
> before calling me. The "facts" were also, most of the time, fraud and<br/>
> attempts of fraud but also slander one time.<br/>
><br/>
> I was most of the time called as suspect because IP are related to my<br/>
> name (because I was leasing those servers), as for a home connection in<br/>
> their point of view (not aware that those IP are dedicated servers IP).<br/>
> Then I simply explain this in appropriate terms. After some times,<br/>
> depending on the agent, for new investigations I'm sometimes "heard" as<br/>
> witness. And most of the time the meeting is fine.<br/>
><br/>
> Each time, I explain that my servers are rented in my name, and that I<br/>
> use them for volunteer participation to a free proxies and VPN network<br/>
> called Tor. I then give some details and explanations about what is Tor,<br/>
> who created it, what are the goals of the project (about protection of<br/>
> expression in bad countries and censorship avoidance, by accessing the<br/>
> same Internet that others do, pricacy protection too), and yes, the<br/>
> misuses... and that these are discouraging misuse and it is not the<br/>
> reason why we participate in this network (far from it !). Then I give<br/>
> the IP of those servers (and one of them is the reason why they called<br/>
> me). And I explain that they are computers with a very fast bandwidth,<br/>
> located in datacenters (Rennes, Vitry...) that can be accessed and<br/>
> configured remotely, like a remote desktop.<br/>
><br/>
> When they ask the question about logs and how to find the author of the<br/>
> fact, my answer is that (unfortunately in that case), Tor is designed as<br/>
> it's not possible for anybody to find who is the IP address from where<br/>
> the traffic originated. It's very secure for those who need to use it.<br/>
> Of course I tell them that if they have suspects in the entourage of the<br/>
> victim, they can check if one of them was connected to the Tor network<br/>
> at the time of the "fact" but as me and others people are using Tor for<br/>
> online privacy without any intention of misuse against anybody, using<br/>
> Tor is not a proof of misuse and is most of the time not done for bad<br/>
> intention. Of course some questioning about a suspect using Tor at the<br/>
> same hour would be rightful in this particular situation, anyway (like I<br/>
> was questioned).<br/>
><br/>
> All time I also come with a sheet of paper explaining Tor a little bit<br/>
> deeply, what are the motivation of the teams and people behind this<br/>
> project, (even in front of misuses that we are, of course, not proud of<br/>
> having on the Tor network, even if without the Tor network, those<br/>
> misuses would have been done by another way). In France I<br/>
><br/>
> Of course sometimes the agent is not very happy about the Tor Network as<br/>
> the investigations is likely to fail because of the Tor Network<br/>
> efficiency. When the misuse is real and obviously bad, nobody can be<br/>
> happy of it !<br/>
><br/>
> In all those cases, my words are honest and true; as we shouldn't be<br/>
> ashamed of participating to projects aiming to a better word and more<br/>
> freedom, but shouldn't be happy of misuses, my personal preference is to<br/>
> be understanding and true. I also tell them that I'm participating, with<br/>
> my computers, to others scientific projects like World Community Grid<br/>
> (explaining it's about cancer research and a lot of others subjects) :<br/>
> It can be seen as "not related" but it is, as that's the way we are<br/>
> volunteers to the Tor Network !<br/>
><br/>
><br/>
> Here's for my feedback ! It's very personal of course, I hope nobody<br/>
> would copy it without feeling it :) I'm just expressing my own feeling<br/>
> on those situations, if it can help everybody to better understand those<br/>
> cases.<br/>
><br/>
> Best regards !<br/>
><br/>
> Julien ROBIN<br/>
><br/>
><br/>
> On 31/10/2016 14:25, Juuso Lapinlampi wrote:<br/>
>> Putting the word out: I was interrogated by the Finnish police today for<br/>
>> multiple alleged counts (15+) of identity crimes, fraud and attempts of<br/>
>> fraud. The invitation letter to be interrogated was sent out on<br/>
>> 2016-10-21 and received by me on 2016-10-25. Today is 2016-10-31.<br/>
>><br/>
>> The police suspects me because of an "IP-address assigned to my name",<br/>
>> which I can't confirm or deny to have a relation to me. As a suspect, I<br/>
>> was not told what this aclaimed IP-address was on a specific date to my<br/>
>> knowledge. It is only speculation if these allegations wrongly against<br/>
>> me have something to do with my relation with the Tor community or<br/>
>> activism about digital rights online.<br/>
>><br/>
>> Pending ongoing investigation, I am not allowed by law to share more<br/>
>> specific details about to the investigation. I'd be glad to reveal more<br/>
>> details about the case once the investigation is over and share/hear how<br/>
>> I became a suspect, once I know about it. (Note that my story is at<br/>
>> least slightly opinionated.)<br/>
>><br/>
>> I had a witness with me and I feel like my rights were being violated<br/>
>> during the interrogation. The officer (not to be named publicly in<br/>
>> respect for privacy) didn't want to allow me to write down their badge<br/>
>> number by taking the badge away from me while trying to write down the<br/>
>> numbers. The officer looked slightly anxious.<br/>
>><br/>
>> After refusing to comment on few questions (to which I have a legal<br/>
>> right as a suspect), soon after me and my belongings with me were<br/>
>> searched for aclaimed "security reasons" and "making sure I'm not<br/>
>> recording this interrogation (with a phone)". I'll let you decide on the<br/>
>> implications on unwarranted searches and individual legal protection.<br/>
>> (See supreme court decision KKO:1990:36.)<br/>
>><br/>
>> I audibly and multiple times in calm manner protested to not consent to<br/>
>> searches, but alas it happened against my will without being suspected<br/>
>> of wrongdoing at the police station in front of my witness. I didn't<br/>
>> physically resist but also didn't voluntarily help the officer.<br/>
>><br/>
>> The officer asked me inappropriate questions which were not related to<br/>
>> the investigation. I was asked about my previous involvement with the<br/>
>> police, how much I knew about the law and unsolicited advice about how<br/>
>> "it will be easier for me if I talked". I demanded the officer to write<br/>
>> down every question since the beginning of interrogation to the<br/>
>> interrogation minutes, including the inappropriate ones, but the officer<br/>
>> refused, trying to make up a fake reason how they were "irrelevant".<br/>
>><br/>
>> The officer raised their voice once or twice during the 45 minutes of<br/>
>> interrogation, apparently angry that I would not "make a confession" or<br/>
>> "help out and tell more" to prove innocence. Confronting the officer<br/>
>> again with a simple question "am I a suspect or a witness" to confirm my<br/>
>> position, I was confirmed again that I was a suspect in the case. Subtly<br/>
>> reminding that "I have my rights" that should be respected, the officer<br/>
>> replied among the lines of "I have my rights too" with disrespect.<br/>
>><br/>
>> After the interrogation minutes did not rightfully represent what was<br/>
>> actually questioned, the only sensible thing to me was to not sign the<br/>
>> minutes. The officer after the officer made threatening claims about how<br/>
>> I "would be going to court" over this, but didn't spend too much effort<br/>
>> on trying to get my signature.<br/>
>><br/>
>> Once the interrogation was concluded, the officer made an unsolicited<br/>
>> comment of "gladly not seeing people like [me] often". I told that I<br/>
>> would be in contact with my lawyers.<br/>
>><br/>
>> I am glad that I was not detained in a cell or arrested, which in my<br/>
>> opinion I can likely attribute to having a witness with me. Looking back<br/>
>> at what just happened at the police station, I should have demanded a<br/>
>> lawyer immediately to the interrogation after having my rights violated,<br/>
>> but I'm relying on my witness for now to make a testimony if necessary.<br/>
>><br/>
>> I repeat that I absolutely deny being guilty of any suspected crimes. Be<br/>
>> safe out there, tor-relays@ and all. (I have legal support behind me and<br/>
>> have never been particularly worried about the investigation or outcome<br/>
>> of this case.)<br/>
>><br/>
>> Proof of invitation letter:<br/>
>> <a href="https://wubthecaptain.eu/files/legal/2016-10-21-alleged-fraud-identity-crime.jpg" target="_blank">https://wubthecaptain.eu/files/legal/2016-10-21-alleged-fraud-identity-crime.jpg</a><br/>
>> _______________________________________________<br/>
>> tor-relays mailing list<br/>
>> tor-relays@lists.torproject.org<br/>
>> <a href="https://lists.torproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tor-relays" target="_blank">https://lists.torproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tor-relays</a><br/>
><br/>
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