<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8"></head><body >Being fairly new to the tor project I can see where he is getting at with the difficulty of helping out. <div><br></div><div>I can deffinantly see having a single person to contact to try and find things to do would be important. While I agree that volunteers should not be babysat there should be someone that has a bunch of tasks to pass off to those who is interested.</div><div><br></div><div>I would be more than willing to dedicate time to do something like this, I think it could be seriously useful to newer people in the community.</div><div><br></div><div>In my mind a volunteer coordinator would not babysit but provide things that may be suited for a particular skill set. Then a little later down the line touch base with person to see if they encountered any issues.</div><div><br></div><div>Side note: getting a little off track here. Would there be a better place for a discussion like this?</div><div><br></div><div>Tim</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><br><br><div>-------- Original message --------</div><div>From: Matthew Finkel <matthew.finkel@gmail.com> </div><div>Date:06/05/2015 02:14 (GMT+08:00) </div><div>To: tor-relays@lists.torproject.org </div><div>Subject: Re: [tor-relays] T-shirts and Confirming Relay Control </div><div><br></div>On Tue, May 05, 2015 at 01:57:04PM +0000, Speak Freely wrote:<br>> Matthew Finkel,<br>> <br>> It's kind of disingenuous to suggest "If you want to work on something,<br>> then please come work on it, we really are overloaded."<br>> <br><br>I'm really sorry you interpretted it in that way. It actually was a<br>genuine request for more help.<br><br>> You have to let us work on it, for us to work on it. Do you understand<br>> the problem?<br><br>Sure, that is a problem, but what is the problem? It seems this dilemma<br>is reoccurring and not getting solved. Someone says they are willing to<br>help work on something, possibly someone else says "great! we need your<br>help!" then nothing happens. Was it an empty offer or did the offer die<br>because no one followed up with the person? Having a volunteer<br>coordinator might help - I hope it would help - but what's the best way<br>to organize that? Is it the responsibly of some people associated with<br>The Tor Project to follow up on every offer they receive or is it the<br>responsibility of the person who made the offer to follow up and get<br>involved? Maybe both?<br><br>> <br>> To The Inner Circle (The Tor Project People),<br>> <br>> I am at the very least the third person to mention in this thread that<br>> we have offered to help. No one responded to my offers. I'm pretty sure<br>> at least some of their offers were ignored as well, though I can't be<br>> bothered to double check.<br><br>:( I don't know. Obviously, not receiving a response sucks. I completely<br>understand that. Tor's work and day-to-day coordination is heavily based<br>around IRC, so the mailing lists are not great places for offering help.<br><br>This whole situation seems to be less about an inner circle existing,<br>and more about a disconnection between the announcements and discussions<br>on the mailing lists and what happens on IRC. I don't know of a good way<br>to bridge this gap, though.<br><br>> <br>> I get that you're busy. However, Matthew's attitude to Seth is, in my<br>> most humble of opinions, unwarranted.<br>><br><br>We're all busy, it's difficult balancing everything. I'm sorry if my<br>response was unwarranted, and maybe I shouldn't have responded because<br>it was off-topic, in any case. It's frustrating trying to do something<br>and improve a situation, and instead of receiving helpful feedback the<br>thread receives complaints about how Tor is crappy with how it handles<br>volunteers. Maybe this is partially due to miscommunication but I'm at<br>a loss for what to do.<br><br>> You've got several people who out of their own free will, decided to<br>> offer our additional help, above and beyond what we already do.<br>> <br>> I wonder, how would you feel, if after offering free assistance to a<br>> community that then goes completely, totally, and utterly UNANSWERED,<br>> only to have those very people that we offered to assist, bitch that<br>> they are busy and want our help. How would you feel?<br>> Angry? A little schadenfreude? Or numb?<br>> <br>> I'm a husband, a father, and a business owner. I'm a busy guy, yet I<br>> still offered to help. I can't express how pissed off I am about this,<br>> without going into a obscenity-laced tirade about how your house isn't<br>> in order.<br>> <br>> When I offer assistance to someone, or in Tor's case several people, I<br>> damn well expect a response. "Yes" or "no", "thanks" or "fuck off",<br>> "please" or "tomorrow", "join us!" or "maybe next time".<br>> <br>> Deafening silence is in no way a mechanism that encourages support from<br>> the broader community, but from my perspective that's all you've given.<br>> <br><br>Thanks.<br><br><br>Obviously you're correct, silence is not an answer and not what you<br>deserve as a result of offering your assistance. I don't know why this<br>happened or the context of the offer but, to be blunt, Tor doesn't<br>babysit volunteers. If you want to work on something, then, you must<br>actually follow through and work on it. I learned this personally. A<br>volunteer coordinator would be a great person for helping volunteers<br>become more integrated into the community and work on projects but it<br>is ultimately the person volunteering who decides how, when, and if<br>they help.<br><br>Tor wants your help, but becoming an active volunteer is your decision.<br><br>> <br>> Here's a suggestion to The Inner Circle<br>> - Have a volunteer coordinator that actually responds to people.<br>> <br>> This way, when the next person offers to help, they might actually get a<br>> good g*d d@mn f@cking response!<br>> <br><br>Yes, this sounds like a good idea. Who wants to volunteer to be the<br>volunteer coordinator? Again, that is a genuine question. No one has<br>stepped up to do it. If we had one, at least they would respond to most<br>offers.<br><br>> <br>> Seeing as how I'm a nobody and my offers aren't worth acknowledging,<br>> please continue to do whatever you'd like, with *all* the success it<br>> brings. Don't forget to smile.<br>> <br><br>Being a nobody or being a somebody is irrelevant. I'm a nobody too, but<br>I'm trying to do something. I sincerely hope you and the rest of the<br>community will help me and Tor, as a whole, create a better<br>community/network/world.<br><br>Let's continue this discussion in a new thread.<br><br>Thanks,<br>Matt<br>_______________________________________________<br>tor-relays mailing list<br>tor-relays@lists.torproject.org<br>https://lists.torproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tor-relays<br></body>