<div dir="ltr"><div>Everyone on this list, including me, is pro human rights. Moreover, we all wish for Tor to further privacy, particularly for those in countries whose governments restrict human rights.</div><div><br></div><div>The only question is which is the better tactic to more effectively "support the people they would like to oppress".</div><div><br></div><div>I make exactly two claims:</div><div><br></div><div>(1) that reducing obstacles to people using Tor is a more effective way to help people than the moral support in a mission statement.</div><div><br></div><div>(2) emphasizing human rights in the mission statement nonnegligibly increases the risk of tangible, concrete obstacles to most needy users using Tor, and I cited some examples of this.</div><div><br></div><div>One can disagree with either (1) or (2). But given both (1) and (2), I believe the conclusion follows.</div><div><br></div><div>-V</div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Sat, Jul 30, 2016 at 12:23 AM, Kate <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:ailanthus@riseup.net" target="_blank">ailanthus@riseup.net</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">Dear Virgil:<br>
<br>
I doubt our social contract is going to trigger international legal<br>
battles around Tor. What governments really don't like about Tor,<br>
despite what they might say, is that we prevent them from spying.<br>
<br>
However, let's think a moment about human rights.<br>
<br>
Here is Tor's official mission statement:<br>
<br>
"To advance human rights and freedoms by creating and deploying free and<br>
open anonymity and privacy technologies, supporting their unrestricted<br>
availability and use, and furthering their scientific and popular<br>
understanding."<br>
<br>
Governments like to paint the idea of human rights as "Western" -- but<br>
that's not the opinion of people in those countries pushing for basic<br>
freedoms.<br>
<br>
For example, Chinese activists working on health, legal, and<br>
environmental issues have told me, "The government says that human<br>
rights are a western value, but don't believe them. Human rights are<br>
universal." That was one of the first things one particular activist, a<br>
doctor, told me just after he was released from prison for advocating<br>
for healthcare for sick people in rural China.<br>
<br>
Many people have risked their lives on this proposition--for instance,<br>
the original signers of China's Charter 08:<br>
<a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charter_08" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charter_08</a><br>
<br>
Lu Xiaobo, the Nobel Laureate, is in prison in China for signing Charter<br>
08 (and he signed it knowing that it would likely trigger his<br>
imprisonment). Many other people also went to jail for signing Charter 08.<br>
<br>
The point of Charter 08 --which is based on the Universal Declaration of<br>
Human Rights--is to say--"Despite what you have been told by the<br>
government--people in China demand and deserve their human rights. Even<br>
now."<br>
<br>
Lots of awful people hate human rights and so do the secret police.<br>
Tor must be an organization that doesn't accommodate them, but instead<br>
finds ways to side with and support the people they would like to oppress.<br>
<br>
--Kate<br>
<br>
<br>
Virgil Griffith:<br>
<div><div class="h5">> This looks very lovely. Thank you Alison for drafting it!<br>
><br>
> The only part that concerns me is explicitly defining "We advance human<br>
> rights" as part of Tor's core mission.<br>
><br>
> The problem is that many people who need Tor the most live in countries in<br>
> which Tor's active alignment with liberal human rights advocacy would<br>
> substantially (certainly non-negligibly) increase the chance of Tor being<br>
> banned.<br>
><br>
> Focusing on human rights gets you on the shit-list for most countries in<br>
> both Southeast Asia and Africa. (Combined with China, this comprises ~44%<br>
> of the world population per Wolfram Alpha.) Presumably, privacy naturally<br>
> dovetails with human rights, but by explicitly stating we are primarily<br>
> focused on human rights, Tor is likely to be banned in many countries in<br>
> which it is sorely needed.<br>
><br>
> For example, in Singapore they were discussing banning Tor but I was able<br>
> to sway them to refrain because Tor is not just "human rights" (which the<br>
> government does not care for), but is a privacy technology for many things,<br>
> such as whistleblowing (which the government likes).<br>
><br>
> By pigeon-holing Tor into chiefly the human-rights category, it makes the<br>
> argument to not ban Tor much more difficult. And Tor being banned is<br>
> counter-conducive to human rights in these regions.<br>
><br>
> So here's the question:<br>
><br>
> ** Would people support Tor Project aligning itself with explicit human<br>
> rights advocacy even if that alignment is likely to obstruct the most-needy<br>
> users' capacity to use Tor software? **<br>
><br>
> -V<br>
><br>
> On Fri, Jul 29, 2016 at 9:22 PM, Isabela <<a href="mailto:isabela@riseup.net">isabela@riseup.net</a>> wrote:<br>
><br>
>> I am with pikachu! +1<br>
>><br>
>> Thank you for the great work community team! Like Teor said, it does a<br>
>> good job describe what we value.<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> On 07/29/2016 04:09 AM, isis agora lovecruft wrote:<br>
>><br>
>> Alison transcribed 2.8K bytes:<br>
>><br>
>> If accepting: your florid prose about why you love it and think it's an<br>
>> astonishing work of art that reflects the diligence and care exercised<br>
>> by the authors is quite welcome. A show of hands (writing an email that<br>
>> says +1) is also fine. Questions are welcome.<br>
>><br>
>> ----------------------------<br>
>> | |<br>
>> | |<br>
>> | 1111 |<br>
>> | ++ 11111 |<br>
>> | ++ 11 111 |<br>
>> | ++++++++ 111 |<br>
>> | ++++++++ 111 |<br>
>> | ++ 111 |<br>
>> | ++ 111111111 |<br>
>> | |<br>
>> | |<br>
>> ============================<br>
>> quu..__ | |<br>
>> $$$b `---.__ | |<br>
>> "$$b `--. | ___.---uuudP<br>
>> `$$b `.__.------.__ __.---' $$$$" .<br>
>> "$b -' `.-' $$$" .'|<br>
>> ". ' d$" _.' |<br>
>> `. / ..." .' |<br>
>> `./ ..::-' _.' |<br>
>> / .:::-'| .-' .'<br>
>> : ::''| | _.' |<br>
>> .' .-. .-. | | .' |<br>
>> : /'$$| .@"$\ | |. .' _.-'<br>
>> .'|$u$$| |$$,$$| | || < _.-'<br>
>> | `:$$:' :$$$$$: | |`. `. .-'<br>
>> : `"--' | | | `-. \<br>
>> :##. == .###. | | `. `. `\<br>
>> |##: :###: ,'| |` | > ><br>
>> |#' `..'`..' `###': | |/ x: / /<br>
>> \ , | |xXX| / ./<br>
>> \ . | |XX'| / ./<br>
>> /`-. : | | `. / /<br>
>> : `- ..........., ; | | | / .'<br>
>> | ``:::::::' .. | | |< `.<br>
>> | ``` | |_| x| \ `.:``.<br>
>> | .' /' xXX| `:`M`M':.<br>
>> | | xXXX'| -'MMMMM:'<br>
>> `. .' |-'MMMM.-'<br>
>> | | .'MMM.-'<br>
>> `'`' |MMM<<br>
>> | |MMMM\<br>
>> \ :MM.-'<br>
>> \ | .''<br>
>> \. `. /<br>
>> / .:::::::.. : /<br>
>> | .:::::::::::`. /<br>
>> | .:::------------\ /<br>
>> / .'' >::' /<br>
>> `',: : .'<br>
>> '''''<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> Thank you for your feedback, and thank you to all of the Tor folks who<br>
>> worked on this, especially Lunar and Roger, who got it started.<br>
>><br>
>> Also +1.<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> _______________________________________________<br>
</div></div>>> tor-project mailing listtor-project@lists.torproject.orghttps://<a href="http://lists.torproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tor-project" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">lists.torproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tor-project</a><br>
<span class="">>><br>
>><br>
>> --<br>
>> PM at TorProject.org<br>
>> gpg fingerprint = 8F2A F9B6 D4A1 4D03 FDF1 B298 3224 4994 1506 4C7B<br>
>> @isa<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> _______________________________________________<br>
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>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
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