<div dir="ltr">What about a disclaimer generated by the tor master site put at the top of the mirrors list. "This page was last updated on XXXXX. If this date is older than XXXX weeks/days ago, you may want to try another mirror in this list for a more up to date copy of Tor".</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Sat, Jun 22, 2013 at 7:00 AM, <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:tor-mirrors-request@lists.torproject.org" target="_blank">tor-mirrors-request@lists.torproject.org</a>></span> wrote:<br>
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Today's Topics:<br>
<br>
1. Re: Outdated mirrors hide / Link to the 'Mirrors' at title<br>
page (Taiga-san)<br>
2. Re: Outdated mirrors hide / Link to the 'Mirrors' at title<br>
page (Thwarth Wrhalthssen)<br>
3. Re: Outdated mirrors hide / Link to the 'Mirrors' at title<br>
page (Andrew Lewman)<br>
<br>
<br>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
<br>
Message: 1<br>
Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2013 14:39:48 +0200<br>
From: "Taiga-san" <<a href="mailto:admin@taiga-san.net">admin@taiga-san.net</a>><br>
To: "'mirroring the tor website and distribution directory'"<br>
<<a href="mailto:tor-mirrors@lists.torproject.org">tor-mirrors@lists.torproject.org</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [tor-mirrors] Outdated mirrors hide / Link to the<br>
'Mirrors' at title page<br>
Message-ID: <000001ce6e7c$6bff3310$43fd9930$@<a href="http://taiga-san.net" target="_blank">taiga-san.net</a>><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"<br>
<br>
> It will run on user's computer and will try to access the other mirrors'<br>
timestamps and if it will discover, that the current mirror (on which script<br>
is executed) is definitely outdated, the warning and some links to<br>
up-to-date mirrors will appear. Maybe even automatic redirect.<br>
In other words you want some JavaScript code on the TOR page contacting a<br>
lot of different pages from an eventually outdated list silently in the<br>
background and additionally change the page wether the user wants it or not.<br>
<br>
JavaScript can compromise your privacy which is exactly why it's disabled in<br>
the TOR Browser. I'm not paranoid, however, if I'm looking for some strong<br>
privacy/anonymity proxy like TOR, there are some things I don't want so see<br>
like some JS contacting other sites, ads, lots of cookies etc.<br>
<br>
> that the current mirror (on which script is executed)<br>
Well, you didn't mean server-side, still: I'm against server-side scripts.<br>
The PHP engine is disabled for the TOR mirror on my server and anything else<br>
like CGI, Perl, SSI etc. is globally disabled (module not loaded) and I<br>
won't change that.<br>
<br>
While I agree that there's the need of making it better, I can't imagine a<br>
good technical way to do it. That's probably why the things are like they<br>
are at the moment.<br>
<br>
PS: Sorry for any mistakes made.<br>
<br>
-----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht-----<br>
Von: tor-mirrors [mailto:<a href="mailto:tor-mirrors-bounces@lists.torproject.org">tor-mirrors-bounces@lists.torproject.org</a>] Im<br>
Auftrag von Thwarth Wrhalthssen<br>
Gesendet: Freitag, 21. Juni 2013 13:22<br>
An: mirroring the tor website and distribution directory<br>
Betreff: Re: [tor-mirrors] Outdated mirrors hide / Link to the 'Mirrors' at<br>
title page<br>
<br>
> Mostly because people find the mirrors in search engine results, and<br>
> when it links to our page, they find they're out of date. This is a<br>
> hint to not use them.<br>
People, who should probably use a mirror, will not access the TorProject.org<br>
with actual statuses of mirrors. Instead, they will access some random<br>
mirror, possibly outdated, with the outdated mirror list. So, the<br>
information about a status of any particular mirror which they will gather<br>
from it, will be unuseful. So, I think there is no actually need in keeping<br>
outdated mirrors in the list non-hidden.<br>
<br>
> If <a href="http://torproject.org" target="_blank">torproject.org</a> is blocked, finding the mirrors page isn't going to<br>
> help you.<br>
<br>
If TorProject.org is blocked, it will be a small chance to find an<br>
up-to-date mirror on the net. For now, if you find some mirror, you never<br>
know if it is updated or not. Apparently, there need to be a method to<br>
display the mirror status, maybe on the title page.<br>
<br>
Some script on the title page can be implemented, that will gather<br>
information from all known updated mirrors about latest actual timestamp. It<br>
will run on user's computer and will try to access the other mirrors'<br>
timestamps and if it will discover, that the current mirror (on which script<br>
is executed) is definitely outdated, the warning and some links to<br>
up-to-date mirrors will appear. Maybe even automatic redirect. I think it<br>
can be implemented easily and will add a plenty of accessibility and<br>
popularity to the mirrors.<br>
<br>
Suggestions from all the operators concerned are very welcome.<br>
<br>
On 06/20/2013 01:54 AM, Andrew Lewman wrote:<br>
> On Wed, 19 Jun 2013 11:27:47 +0400<br>
> Thwarth Wrhalthssen<<a href="mailto:wrhalthssen@ya.ru">wrhalthssen@ya.ru</a>> wrote:<br>
><br>
>> I think the mirrors page should be redesigned a little. What is the<br>
>> purpose of displaying all outdated and non-accessible mirrors? The<br>
>> owners of such mirrors are barely interested in maintaining them, so,<br>
>> I think, the best option is just to remove or hide them from the<br>
>> list. If owner of such mirror is interested in running it updated,<br>
>> he'll notice, that his site isn't listed anymore, he'll update it and<br>
>> his mirror will show up again in the list. Additionaly, it would be<br>
>> great to add a Javascript code to the list to make it possible to<br>
>> filter mirrors by country and services accessible (and a tiny country<br>
>> flags, just for lucidity).<br>
> Mostly because people find the mirrors in search engine results, and<br>
> when it links to our page, they find they're out of date. This is a<br>
> hint to not use them.<br>
><br>
> Frankly, the whole mirroring system needs a rewrite and update.<br>
><br>
>> The second issue is the access to the mirrors page. For now you need<br>
>> to scroll down to the bottom page and find a tiny 'Mirrors' link in<br>
>> the 'Get Involved' section. Isn't it difficult enough? The Tor<br>
>> software is blocked in variety of countries and the mirrors are<br>
>> essential part of maintaining Tor website accessible, so isn't it<br>
>> right to make a link to the mirrors list somehow more accessible? I<br>
>> mean, for example, put 'Mirrors' list in the top navigation section<br>
>> ('Home', 'About Tor' etc). I believe lot of people failed to find<br>
>> this list just because it's location on the site is non-obvious.<br>
>> Maybe a crucial part of them are simply don't know the mirrors list<br>
>> exist.<br>
> Mostly because we know people find the mirrors via search engines, not<br>
> linking to our site. If <a href="http://torproject.org" target="_blank">torproject.org</a> is blocked, finding the mirrors<br>
> page isn't going to help you.<br>
><br>
> We're open to ideas here.<br>
><br>
_______________________________________________<br>
tor-mirrors mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:tor-mirrors@lists.torproject.org">tor-mirrors@lists.torproject.org</a><br>
<a href="https://lists.torproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tor-mirrors" target="_blank">https://lists.torproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tor-mirrors</a><br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
------------------------------<br>
<br>
Message: 2<br>
Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2013 16:47:23 +0400<br>
From: Thwarth Wrhalthssen <<a href="mailto:wrhalthssen@ya.ru">wrhalthssen@ya.ru</a>><br>
To: mirroring the tor website and distribution directory<br>
<<a href="mailto:tor-mirrors@lists.torproject.org">tor-mirrors@lists.torproject.org</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [tor-mirrors] Outdated mirrors hide / Link to the<br>
'Mirrors' at title page<br>
Message-ID: <<a href="mailto:51C44B5B.6000602@ya.ru">51C44B5B.6000602@ya.ru</a>><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed<br>
<br>
> > that the current mirror (on which script is executed)<br>
> Well, you didn't mean server-side<br>
Yes, I meant a client script. I just discovered that the site really<br>
doesn't include any client-side scripts, so my suggestion to implement a<br>
script is useless due to this policy. Maybe someone can suggest<br>
something better.<br>
<br>
On 06/21/2013 04:39 PM, Taiga-san wrote:<br>
>> It will run on user's computer and will try to access the other mirrors'<br>
> timestamps and if it will discover, that the current mirror (on which script<br>
> is executed) is definitely outdated, the warning and some links to<br>
> up-to-date mirrors will appear. Maybe even automatic redirect.<br>
> In other words you want some JavaScript code on the TOR page contacting a<br>
> lot of different pages from an eventually outdated list silently in the<br>
> background and additionally change the page wether the user wants it or not.<br>
><br>
> JavaScript can compromise your privacy which is exactly why it's disabled in<br>
> the TOR Browser. I'm not paranoid, however, if I'm looking for some strong<br>
> privacy/anonymity proxy like TOR, there are some things I don't want so see<br>
> like some JS contacting other sites, ads, lots of cookies etc.<br>
><br>
> > that the current mirror (on which script is executed)<br>
> Well, you didn't mean server-side, still: I'm against server-side scripts.<br>
> The PHP engine is disabled for the TOR mirror on my server and anything else<br>
> like CGI, Perl, SSI etc. is globally disabled (module not loaded) and I<br>
> won't change that.<br>
><br>
> While I agree that there's the need of making it better, I can't imagine a<br>
> good technical way to do it. That's probably why the things are like they<br>
> are at the moment.<br>
><br>
> PS: Sorry for any mistakes made.<br>
><br>
> -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht-----<br>
> Von: tor-mirrors [mailto:<a href="mailto:tor-mirrors-bounces@lists.torproject.org">tor-mirrors-bounces@lists.torproject.org</a>] Im<br>
> Auftrag von Thwarth Wrhalthssen<br>
> Gesendet: Freitag, 21. Juni 2013 13:22<br>
> An: mirroring the tor website and distribution directory<br>
> Betreff: Re: [tor-mirrors] Outdated mirrors hide / Link to the 'Mirrors' at<br>
> title page<br>
><br>
>> Mostly because people find the mirrors in search engine results, and<br>
>> when it links to our page, they find they're out of date. This is a<br>
>> hint to not use them.<br>
> People, who should probably use a mirror, will not access the TorProject.org<br>
> with actual statuses of mirrors. Instead, they will access some random<br>
> mirror, possibly outdated, with the outdated mirror list. So, the<br>
> information about a status of any particular mirror which they will gather<br>
> from it, will be unuseful. So, I think there is no actually need in keeping<br>
> outdated mirrors in the list non-hidden.<br>
><br>
>> If <a href="http://torproject.org" target="_blank">torproject.org</a> is blocked, finding the mirrors page isn't going to<br>
>> help you.<br>
> If TorProject.org is blocked, it will be a small chance to find an<br>
> up-to-date mirror on the net. For now, if you find some mirror, you never<br>
> know if it is updated or not. Apparently, there need to be a method to<br>
> display the mirror status, maybe on the title page.<br>
><br>
> Some script on the title page can be implemented, that will gather<br>
> information from all known updated mirrors about latest actual timestamp. It<br>
> will run on user's computer and will try to access the other mirrors'<br>
> timestamps and if it will discover, that the current mirror (on which script<br>
> is executed) is definitely outdated, the warning and some links to<br>
> up-to-date mirrors will appear. Maybe even automatic redirect. I think it<br>
> can be implemented easily and will add a plenty of accessibility and<br>
> popularity to the mirrors.<br>
><br>
> Suggestions from all the operators concerned are very welcome.<br>
><br>
> On 06/20/2013 01:54 AM, Andrew Lewman wrote:<br>
>> On Wed, 19 Jun 2013 11:27:47 +0400<br>
>> Thwarth Wrhalthssen<<a href="mailto:wrhalthssen@ya.ru">wrhalthssen@ya.ru</a>> wrote:<br>
>><br>
>>> I think the mirrors page should be redesigned a little. What is the<br>
>>> purpose of displaying all outdated and non-accessible mirrors? The<br>
>>> owners of such mirrors are barely interested in maintaining them, so,<br>
>>> I think, the best option is just to remove or hide them from the<br>
>>> list. If owner of such mirror is interested in running it updated,<br>
>>> he'll notice, that his site isn't listed anymore, he'll update it and<br>
>>> his mirror will show up again in the list. Additionaly, it would be<br>
>>> great to add a Javascript code to the list to make it possible to<br>
>>> filter mirrors by country and services accessible (and a tiny country<br>
>>> flags, just for lucidity).<br>
>> Mostly because people find the mirrors in search engine results, and<br>
>> when it links to our page, they find they're out of date. This is a<br>
>> hint to not use them.<br>
>><br>
>> Frankly, the whole mirroring system needs a rewrite and update.<br>
>><br>
>>> The second issue is the access to the mirrors page. For now you need<br>
>>> to scroll down to the bottom page and find a tiny 'Mirrors' link in<br>
>>> the 'Get Involved' section. Isn't it difficult enough? The Tor<br>
>>> software is blocked in variety of countries and the mirrors are<br>
>>> essential part of maintaining Tor website accessible, so isn't it<br>
>>> right to make a link to the mirrors list somehow more accessible? I<br>
>>> mean, for example, put 'Mirrors' list in the top navigation section<br>
>>> ('Home', 'About Tor' etc). I believe lot of people failed to find<br>
>>> this list just because it's location on the site is non-obvious.<br>
>>> Maybe a crucial part of them are simply don't know the mirrors list<br>
>>> exist.<br>
>> Mostly because we know people find the mirrors via search engines, not<br>
>> linking to our site. If <a href="http://torproject.org" target="_blank">torproject.org</a> is blocked, finding the mirrors<br>
>> page isn't going to help you.<br>
>><br>
>> We're open to ideas here.<br>
>><br>
> _______________________________________________<br>
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> <a href="mailto:tor-mirrors@lists.torproject.org">tor-mirrors@lists.torproject.org</a><br>
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><br>
> _______________________________________________<br>
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> <a href="mailto:tor-mirrors@lists.torproject.org">tor-mirrors@lists.torproject.org</a><br>
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><br>
><br>
<br>
<br>
------------------------------<br>
<br>
Message: 3<br>
Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2013 12:30:56 -0400<br>
From: Andrew Lewman <<a href="mailto:andrew@torproject.is">andrew@torproject.is</a>><br>
To: <a href="mailto:tor-mirrors@lists.torproject.org">tor-mirrors@lists.torproject.org</a><br>
Subject: Re: [tor-mirrors] Outdated mirrors hide / Link to the<br>
'Mirrors' at title page<br>
Message-ID: <20130621123056.4cb9258a@kilik><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII<br>
<br>
On Fri, 21 Jun 2013 14:39:48 +0200<br>
"Taiga-san" <<a href="mailto:admin@taiga-san.net">admin@taiga-san.net</a>> wrote:<br>
<br>
> JavaScript can compromise your privacy which is exactly why it's<br>
> disabled in the TOR Browser. I'm not paranoid, however, if I'm<br>
> looking for some strong privacy/anonymity proxy like TOR, there are<br>
> some things I don't want so see like some JS contacting other sites,<br>
> ads, lots of cookies etc.<br>
<br>
javascript is enabled in tor browser. See<br>
<a href="https://www.torproject.org/docs/faq.html.en#TBBJavaScriptEnabled" target="_blank">https://www.torproject.org/docs/faq.html.en#TBBJavaScriptEnabled</a><br>
<br>
> While I agree that there's the need of making it better, I can't<br>
> imagine a good technical way to do it. That's probably why the things<br>
> are like they are at the moment.<br>
<br>
There are some open tickets on this:<br>
<br>
<a href="https://trac.torproject.org/projects/tor/ticket/6978" target="_blank">https://trac.torproject.org/projects/tor/ticket/6978</a><br>
<br>
and<br>
<br>
<a href="https://trac.torproject.org/projects/tor/ticket/3947" target="_blank">https://trac.torproject.org/projects/tor/ticket/3947</a><br>
<br>
<br>
--<br>
Andrew<br>
<a href="http://tpo.is/contact" target="_blank">http://tpo.is/contact</a><br>
pgp 0x6B4D6475<br>
<br>
<br>
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------------------------------<br>
<br>
End of tor-mirrors Digest, Vol 25, Issue 10<br>
*******************************************<br>
</blockquote></div><br></div>