<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html charset=us-ascii"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class="">Hi,<div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">I also have concerns about proposal 246, I don't think its benefits are compelling</div><div class="">compared with the number of drawbacks.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">If we do want to skip the introduction point, proposal 252 (single onion services)</div><div class="">provides a way for onion services to do this on an opt-in basis. (However, it doesn't</div><div class="">allow onion services to skip the introduction point step and stay location-hidden.)</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">There's also nothing preventing us from making this change in future, by modifying</div><div class="">how hidden services select their introduction points. We could then teach clients</div><div class="">to use the HSDir as an introduction point if it's in the list.</div><div class=""><br class=""><div><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On 14 Jan 2016, at 03:50, George Kadianakis <<a href="mailto:desnacked@riseup.net" class="">desnacked@riseup.net</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=""><div class="">Hello there,<br class="">...<br class="">Here are some issues that make this proposal not an obvious pick:<br class=""><br class="">1) Security issues<br class="">...<br class=""> - It was also pointed out that the HSDir algorithm does not take into<br class=""> account the bandwidth of the nodes, making it easier to launch Sybil<br class=""> attacks. However, the rest of the the mailing list thread suggests<br class=""> various ways to do bandwidth weighted hash ring selections [4], so this<br class=""> might not be an important factor.<br class=""></div></div></blockquote><div><br class=""></div><div>As far as I recall, there was no guarantee that a large hidden service would</div><div>not pick 6 low-bandwidth HSDirs/IPs for a day, with serious impact on the</div><div>reachability of that hidden service for that period.</div><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class=""><div class="">3) Load balancing issue<br class="">...<br class=""> - Another concern here is that hidden services would not be able to change<br class=""> the number of their introduction points. This is not a big problem<br class=""> currently, but it could become in the future if the network gets more<br class=""> overloaded. As a partial solution to this, #17690 suggests making the<br class=""> number of HSDirs a network-wide consensus parameter that could also be<br class=""> used by proposal 246.<br class=""></div></div></blockquote><div><br class=""></div><div>It could also become a big problem for large hidden services which benefit from</div><div>10 (or more) introduction points.</div><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class=""><div class="">2) Reachability issue<br class=""><br class=""> A final issue here is that if the relay churn of the network increases, the<br class=""> introduction point hash ring might be changing rapidly and clients might get<br class=""> pointed to the wrong introduction points.<br class=""><br class=""> However, this does not seem like a greater problem than what hidden services<br class=""> are facing with HSDir reachability currently. Is this right, or does prop246<br class=""> makes it worse?<br class=""></div></div></blockquote><div><br class=""></div><div>Proposal 246 makes it worse, because now both HSDirs and introductions depend</div><div>on a potentially churning hash ring. If churn makes an introduction point</div><div>unreachable, this increases the load on the other introduction points.</div><div><br class=""></div><div>Clients also cache descriptors from HSDirs, but they need an introduction point</div><div>to be up whenever they contact the hidden service.</div><br class=""></div><div>Tim</div><br class=""><div class="">
<div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); letter-spacing: normal; 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white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><div style="orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; widows: auto; word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><div style="orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; widows: auto; word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><div style="orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; widows: auto; word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><div style="orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; widows: auto; word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><div style="orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; widows: auto; word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><div style="orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; widows: auto; word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><div style="orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; widows: auto; word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><div style="orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; widows: auto; word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><div style="orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; widows: auto; word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><div style="orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; widows: auto; word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><div style="orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; widows: auto; word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); letter-spacing: normal; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; widows: auto; word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class="">Tim Wilson-Brown (teor)</div><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); letter-spacing: normal; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; widows: auto; word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><br class=""></div><div style="orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; widows: auto; word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class="">teor2345 at gmail dot com<br class="">PGP 968F094B<br class=""><br class="">teor at blah dot im<br class="">OTR CAD08081 9755866D 89E2A06F E3558B7F B5A9D14F</div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div>
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